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6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser...European vs American
- Thread starter Nathan
- Start date
Wikipedia has the CIP specs, they look to be the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5×55mm_Swedish
12.2 mm = 0.480"
The pressure values are different although not by much:
The big difference in European vs American versions of the same cartridge are in 8mm Mauser, not 6.5 Swede.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5×55mm_Swedish
12.2 mm = 0.480"
The pressure values are different although not by much:
According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) rulings the 6.5×55mm can handle up to 380.00 MPa (55,114 psi) Pmax piezo pressure.
...
The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for this cartridge is 51,000 psi (351.6 MPa) piezo pressure (46,000 CUP).
The big difference in European vs American versions of the same cartridge are in 8mm Mauser, not 6.5 Swede.
CIP and SAAMI are supposed to be interchangable, but this is not always so.
Any change to a design in Europe means that you have to rename the cartridge.
Take 6.5-284 Win vs 6.5-284 Norma. Norma chambers have a different throat, hence the name change.
CIP pressures are also usually higher than SAAMI.
You still have to proof a gun in Europe. This is potentially upwards of 130,000 psi or more.
Any change to a design in Europe means that you have to rename the cartridge.
Take 6.5-284 Win vs 6.5-284 Norma. Norma chambers have a different throat, hence the name change.
CIP pressures are also usually higher than SAAMI.
You still have to proof a gun in Europe. This is potentially upwards of 130,000 psi or more.
I don't think that is correct. Pretty sure they are the same, the 6.5-284 Win is a wildcat (simply a nexked down .284 Win), when it was finally standardized by Norma and submitted to CIP they named it after themselves.Take 6.5-284 Win vs 6.5-284 Norma. Norma chambers have a different throat, hence the name change.
For the 6.5X55 Swede, looking at the actual case drawings from SAMMI and CIP (posted on Wikipedia), the rim sizes are the same, 12.2mm, so the US cases with the smaller ,308 sized rim are out of spec.
There is two 6.5x284 and one is wildcat other 6.5x284 Norma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma
Sure Norma name it because of the change.
Nosler is only one that has data for 6.5x284 Norma 3.228"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma
Sure Norma name it because of the change.
Nosler is only one that has data for 6.5x284 Norma 3.228"
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Nosler is only that has data for 6.5x284 Norma 3.228"
Nosler has different load data for 6.5x284 Norma and 6.5x284?
As I posted Nolser only has loading data for 6.5x284 Norma
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/65-284-norma/
I'm loading for 284 on long action OAL 3.300" and I'm not loading for 6.5x284 Norma any more so really haven't followed it much.
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/65-284-norma/
I'm loading for 284 on long action OAL 3.300" and I'm not loading for 6.5x284 Norma any more so really haven't followed it much.
FrankenMauser
New member
No. They're different cartridges.I don't think that is correct. Pretty sure they are the same, the 6.5-284 Win is a wildcat (simply a nexked down .284 Win), when it was finally standardized by Norma and submitted to CIP they named it after themselves.
The Norma version of the cartridge has different shoulder and neck geometry, and a different throat, in order to seat bullets longer.
Since "6.5-284 Winchester" has never been standardized, you'll find different versions of it.
6.5-284 Norma is a standard cartridge, and should always be the same. The rest of the 6.5-284s are wildcats.
Nope.Many American cartridges are built around 0.473” based 30-06 or 308 action length....but does this matter?
If the case and chamber dimensions are correct, and the rim will fit your bolt face, it doesn't matter.
The base is 0.480” on the Swede. Many American cartridges are built around 0.473” based 30-06 or 308 action length....but does this matter?
You are confusing US vs European and an apples an oranges sort of way.
Yes, the bolt head has to fit the case. How much extra a US 06 class bolt head has vs the dimension of the 6.5 x 55 I do not know (I can check)
If the gun is designed for 6.5 x 55 then its not an issue. It will have the right clearance for a .480 base.
If you are converting a US gun TO 6.5 x 55, then it may or may not work.
I did it with a 7.5 x 55 Swiss, I had to open up the 30-06 base sized bolt head a bit.,
Easily done with the right touch and some lucky (you only get one mistake! - and no way to practice realistically)
Any ammunition that is 6.5 x 55 will have the 6.5 x 55 bolt head size no matter where it is made.
It sounds like you are getting mixed up with US heritage vs the European in base size who have their own and don't care (nor should they)
So while a great many cartridges in the US are derived from the 30-03/30-06, max nix.
The US cartridges have settled on their base sizes and tend to accommodate (if not 100%) the existing family of cartridges size wise.
The loadings are a different story due to the history of the 6.5 x 55 and what level it can be pushed to in what gun, but has nothing to do with the base size.
The 6.5 x 55 base may fit a 30-06, but its going to be quite tight and even if it just does, mabye not good ejection. You need a bit of extra openness to work right.
My 7.5 is tight, but I had it where I wanted it and its a single shot bench rest shooter, so I am not concerned about feeding.
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"...CIP and SAAMI are supposed to be interchangeable..." Nope. Never have been and likely never will be. CIP pressure specs are higher for one. CIP is entirely metric too.
SAAMI is a voluntary thing. I don't think CIP is.
There's a factory drawing here.
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/factory-case-drawing-of-6-5x55-swedish/13235
"...based 30-06 or 308 action length..." That's the rim diameter. Nothing to do with the action length.
SAAMI is a voluntary thing. I don't think CIP is.
There's a factory drawing here.
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/factory-case-drawing-of-6-5x55-swedish/13235
"...based 30-06 or 308 action length..." That's the rim diameter. Nothing to do with the action length.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the original poster has a real question. When I got my Remington 700 classic, chambered in 6.5x55mm and started reloading for it, I noticed that American commercial brass was loose and could slip out of a 6.5x55 shell holder. I went to a .473 cartridge rim diameter shell holder and everything suddenly worked fine.
I know the 6.5 swede should be .480 at the base and you can discuss specs all you wish, but here's the reality. I just a few minutes ago, "miked" about a dozen new pieces of empty Remington brass. The rim diameter varied from .473 to .474.
I know the 6.5 swede should be .480 at the base and you can discuss specs all you wish, but here's the reality. I just a few minutes ago, "miked" about a dozen new pieces of empty Remington brass. The rim diameter varied from .473 to .474.
300 wsm hunter
Inactive
i picked up a winchester mod 70 featherweight in 6.5x55 i bought 4 boxes of ammo
norma 156gr oryx sp
lapua 155gr sp mega
federal 140gr fusion bt
nosler 140gr accubond
i've noticed that the norma and lapua cases go in tite while the nosler and the federals just drop right in so i think the euro stuff is a little longer or fatter i havent measured yet to see the difference
norma 156gr oryx sp
lapua 155gr sp mega
federal 140gr fusion bt
nosler 140gr accubond
i've noticed that the norma and lapua cases go in tite while the nosler and the federals just drop right in so i think the euro stuff is a little longer or fatter i havent measured yet to see the difference
American made 6.5x55 brass was based on the 30-06 case, and the base's were a smaller dia than Norma/Lapua brass. After the first firing, there can be a noticeable base bulge. As most dies do not resize this out, not that big a deal in resizing the cases for accuracy.
And if memory holds, not all the American cases are the same base dia. Serb brass is about half way between the differing sizes.
And if memory holds, not all the American cases are the same base dia. Serb brass is about half way between the differing sizes.
i picked up a winchester mod 70 featherweight in 6.5x55 i bought 4 boxes of ammo
norma 156gr oryx sp
lapua 155gr sp mega
federal 140gr fusion bt
nosler 140gr accubond
i've noticed that the norma and lapua cases go in tite while the nosler and the federals just drop right in so i think the euro stuff is a little longer or fatter i havent measured yet to see the difference
The case forming can be off for a variety of reasons (and fixed) if you could measure the base, that is a nice cross section to see what they did.
Thank you zeke for coming to my rescue. I find it disheartening that some think we are either lying or incompetently measuring rim diameters. Plausibly or "implausibly", the rim diameters for my 6.5x55 Remington brass were .473 to .474, which were measured yesterday and posted here. I've been reloading for the 6.5 swede since 1995 and yesterday's results are consistent with what I have found with Remington or Winchester brass for the last 20 years. As I said, the 6.5x55 shell holder doesn't even work with it. I have to use a shell holder sized for .473 cases. As the original poster was asking (and he got pooh-pooh'ed for his question), american 6.5x55 brass seems to be undersized. I'm guessing that it is cheaper to make the rim and base size at .473 for a cartridge with small sales volume and this is the result of a manufacturing economy.
A 6.5x55mm Swede cartridge is the same no matter who makes it or where. Lately, it is being called the 6.5x55 Scandinavian.
One must allow some manufacturing tolerance problems.
You asked about European vs U. S. standards. The 'European' standards have alway been a bit higher in pressure than the U. S. (Maybe the U. S. has more lawyers?) Still, a European manufactured cartridge should operate in a European (Swedish) rifle. The rifle may get looser sooner, but should not suffer a catastrophic failure.
One man also see a difference in action pressure limits. The original "94 and '96 Swedish Mausers are based on a pre 1898 Mauser action. (The 1891 type, I think.) The older action is not rated for as high a pressure as the '98 Mauser. The earlier action is limited to about 45,000 psi and the '98 actions goes to 60,000 psi or so. So a 6.5x55mm Swede could be loaded to much higher performance levels in the 98 than in the older version.
(Of course, this does not account for the strength of the brass or of getting confused about in which rifle should 'this' ammo be shot?)
A rifle using the .30-06 bolt dimensions in a 6.5mm caliber is NOT a 6.5x55 Swede. Typically it is a 6.5-06 (an old and quite useful wildcat) or a 6.5-08 (based on .308 Win case) which seems to be 'legitimized' as the .260 Remington (except Remington make the barrel twist too slow to use the heavy bullets).
Have I confused you enough? If not, I'll reexplain it until I do. Just say so.
One must allow some manufacturing tolerance problems.
You asked about European vs U. S. standards. The 'European' standards have alway been a bit higher in pressure than the U. S. (Maybe the U. S. has more lawyers?) Still, a European manufactured cartridge should operate in a European (Swedish) rifle. The rifle may get looser sooner, but should not suffer a catastrophic failure.
One man also see a difference in action pressure limits. The original "94 and '96 Swedish Mausers are based on a pre 1898 Mauser action. (The 1891 type, I think.) The older action is not rated for as high a pressure as the '98 Mauser. The earlier action is limited to about 45,000 psi and the '98 actions goes to 60,000 psi or so. So a 6.5x55mm Swede could be loaded to much higher performance levels in the 98 than in the older version.
(Of course, this does not account for the strength of the brass or of getting confused about in which rifle should 'this' ammo be shot?)
A rifle using the .30-06 bolt dimensions in a 6.5mm caliber is NOT a 6.5x55 Swede. Typically it is a 6.5-06 (an old and quite useful wildcat) or a 6.5-08 (based on .308 Win case) which seems to be 'legitimized' as the .260 Remington (except Remington make the barrel twist too slow to use the heavy bullets).
Have I confused you enough? If not, I'll reexplain it until I do. Just say so.
Don Fischer
New member
I had a 6.5x55 barrel put on a Parker-Hale 25-06. Had to open the bolt up just a bit to make it fit. Not sure about what they sell for ammo in Europe but seem's to me I read some where it's loaded down for military actions. I would think the same is done here. Get a modern rifle and reload or use the factory stuff and out come will be about the same!