6.5 Creedmore

6.5x55 , born in 1894 IIRC. My 6.5x55 served me well for 25 years of deer hunting. Finn Aagaard called it the perfect deer cartridge. I agree ! High BC and SD, low recoil , make for a very effective cartridge.
All I can say to you new 6.5 fans is --you're slow but welcome to the club ! :rolleyes:
 
6.5 Creedmoor

I have one built on a Turkish Mauser action, with a 24",#3 contour, 1:8" twist Douglas Premium XX barrel. I installed a PTG 3 position wing style safety, and a Mark X factory trigger on it.
I ordered the 143 grn ELD-X bullets and bought brass down at my local Bass Pro, (they had 5 boxes).
My Hornady Custom dies came today, and my Micrometer seater stem should be here Tuesday.
This rifle will be my deer and coyotes rifle set up for 350-400 yd shots on both of those critters.
I have hunted deer since 1978 using 3006, .270 winchester, 7mm rem mag, .243 win, even killed 2 with a borrowed .308 win,( because I was helping my buddy dressing his buck and his rifle was closer than mine). And I have to say that all these cartridges are wonderfull, but like the OP, I want to drop down in recoil and powder consumption.
 
Who makes a 6.5 with a 1 in 8 twist?
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1/8 twist is pretty much the standard that all the major commercial manufacturers are using. In fact you'd be hard pressed to find a current production one in a different twist.
 
When the OP originally said "of late", I snickered just a tiny bit because the 6.5 Creedmore was long ago eclipsed by the 6mm Creedmore- yet, no one talks much about it despite the fact that it's not really an obscure wildcat.

In 2015 the 6mm was more popular among the top 100 PRS shooters than the 6.5- with the 6mm Creedmore at the top of the 6mm list with 18 of the top 100 finishes. Others like the 6xc and Dasher (the Dasher is popular where we shoot) help round out the list.

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/10/12/best-rifle-caliber/

I'm more of a "bread and butter" guy because I just don't have the time to chase finicky loads at the range. Others here can probably comment on which fall into that category. Clearly, the .260 and 6.5 Creed aren't known for that.

But at some point, there will be a 6mm barrel in my safe.
 
I fought it and eventually gave up yielding that the 6.5CM is superior in the auto-loaders.
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And for production rifles this alone is going to make a big difference. Assuming lack of legal restrictions on semi-auto rifles. I don't have good numbers, maybe NSSF does, but it seems to me now that everyone has an AR-15 and decided they like them even if black and aluminum, a lot of people are looking at AR-10s. I would not be surprised if AR-10 dominate the rife game where legal in 10-15 years. I also think it is likely some alternative lowers will be more viable than the AR-15 lowers commonly available in such areas now. 6.5X47 has pretty much no mass market potential because it doesn't have the required backers(unless someone big jumps on board). 260, as admitted by its proponents in this thread, isn't as good for most target shooters because of the neck support issues COAL issues. Who makes factory 260 match ammunition? It runs about double the price of 6.5 CM. The 6.5 CM is the only round that works for everyone. That is why I predict it will win.

Then you really need to look at the ballistics and understand that there are several 6.5s that launch the same bullets at equivalent, and in some cases faster, velocities.
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What you need to realize is the average person walking into Cabela's, buying a new rifle and walking out the door with 2-3boxes of ammunition doesn't know or care. They are shooting downloaded factory ammunition anyways The minute differences in ballistics will not affect them. The lighter short action, availability in an Ar-10, etc. will be of concern to them. Hardcore target shooters and re-loaders don't directly drive the commercial new gun market. The volume of ammunition they use probably has a much greater effect on that market, but even then it is limited by how much they reload instead of buying factory.
I would love to have stats concerning how many new 6.5 CMs are being sold v. 260 Rems, or how many new 308s are being sold v. new 30-06s. I don't have that info, maybe NSSF does. What I do have is info concerning how many of each local stores are stocking and the apparent turn-over. I have some very limited and sales pitch tainted info about local stores sales. I see what people show up to the range with, where most even with decked out AR-10 or the one RPR I have seen are shooting factory ammo. The numbers I get there are pretty clear. If you don't think 6.5 CM dominating new sales will cause the other rounds to fade then I guess those things don't matter. Or do you think Ruger is going to release a 260 Rem RPR?

Until Henry makes a decision on whether I can have a 6.5 CM Long Ranger, I won't have any skin in the game though.
 
Like I said earlier, I'm really fond of my Tikka in 260, but it's only an accident that I have one. I sure didn't need it, but bought it thinking my wife needed it. She didn't but I found I liked it. Liked it a lot.

So what I'm really thinking is that most folks hardly even know or care that the 260 or 6.5 CM exist. Are either one ever going to become really popular, like the 25-06 or 270 or 308? Probably not, because the rounds fill a gap that, for most hunters, didn't need to be filled. Are they better for hunting than those others I mentioned? No, they aren't. They give performance, for hunting, somewhat below that of a 270. They do kick less. I do like my 260, but I could do almost the exact thing with a 257 Roberts AI. Or, I could get myself a Tikka T3 lite stainless in 270 with a 20 inch barrel and shoot the 110 gr Nosler Accubond at 3400 fps and be very happy. But...the 260 or CM do just fine, with less recoil. And if you are a long range paper puncher, the 6.5's do fill your niche. And every time I go hunting these days, I reach past the 270 for my 260. Delightful rifle and superbly accurate.
 
John, all valid points, and I do think that down the road that the 6.5CM will far surpass the .260Rem, but I think it is marketing and not performance that will be the largest driver. I do not think Ruger is going to make a .260Rem anything...they have clearly chosen the 6.5CM. Will someone else enter the market with a .260Rem in a $1K tactical practical rig that competes with the RPR? If yes, and they are big enough with good QC, the tables may turn. But I do think the 6.5CM will cause some fade in calibers like the 6.5x55, 6.5x284, the .257s and to a lesser degree the .260Rem and the 7mm-08.

That the 6.5CM works in the .308 pattern ARs is a minor benefit to its eventual place in the market, but one not lost on me. When I have a friend ask me about a LR rig, I ask them what else they own and might own down the road. If they even think they might want a 6.5mm gas gun, or they are not a reloader, my answer comes back 6.5CM, it just makes sense.

Trust me, I understand the average guy, and why they don't care, and they probably should not care. Remington gets more requests for .260Rem than any other caliber...but even being a .260Rem and 700 fan, I have gone to Rugers, and .243 Win due to Big Greens lack of QC, and I already am tooled up for .243 with guns, brass, bullets and powder. But, even within the TFL group, I likely shoot and reload a lot more than the average so it matters little to me. Barrels and bullets are the same to me...consumables, but not to the average gun buyer.

6mm bores do dominate PRS. The Dasher is coming on strong and there are a few others. But do I for a second think that the 1000 or so PRS shooters are affecting the bread and butter sales at the major retailers? Not for a second, but I do think the RPR in 6.5CM may be the single best thing to happen to precision shooting/hunting/plinking and "me too" sales in the bolt gun market ever.
 
That the 6.5CM works in the .308 pattern ARs is a minor benefit to its eventual place in the market, but one not lost on me. When I have a friend ask me about a LR rig, I ask them what else they own and might own down the road. If they even think they might want a 6.5mm gas gun, or they are not a reloader, my answer comes back 6.5CM, it just makes sense.
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Good thread, and this is where I'm at, Im thinking about a rem 700 and a 308 pattern AR, either in 260 or 6.5 CM. The AR is just a barrel change.
The 700 is a new build so it is more involved.
Mag length is almost 0.050 longer in the bolt gun than the AR.
But I can only do one caliber.
So I'm following this thread, and seeing what the mag length limitations and bullet choices affect the choice of calibers.
 
Main interest is in long range target shooting out to 300/400 yards.
Will be used for deer hunting but at much shorter ranges.
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6mm Dash is a specialized target wildcat
257 Roberts AI is a specialized hunting wildcat
25-06 isn't offered in any factory match ammunition
What match grade 25 caliber bullets are available to a reloader?

6mm bores do dominate PRS
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I believe the 6mm rifles are dominating the ranks of top competitors. I've seen some comparisons of scores and it appears to me like a lot of middle and bottom of the pack shooters are still using the 6.5s. In this case I am arguing market share, not ballistic performance as the difference is minimal. There also aren't a lot of people hunting deer with 6mm rifles either.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/10/12/best-rifle-caliber/
That is top 100. 6.5 actually increased relative to 6mm from 2014 to 2015. I'd be willing to bet the farther out you expand such a survey the more the larger bores with increased factory support come into play. Can you buy a 6mm DASHER barrell? You have to buy a blank and send it to a small number of smiths to chamber it, right? Not a big deal if you are already into a top end custom rifle, but not accessible for mass market. It would also be interesting to see how many of those who moved to 6mm increased their ranking when they made the move. I expect a lot of the difference in rank between cartridges is simply those who were highly ranked before the change chasing every advantage possible. Still, a very small and specialized group when compared to the market in general.

We have been thriving off of boat loads, sometimes literally, of surplus ammo and to a lesser extent rifles, for decades. 556, 308,30-06. Greek, South African, US, etc. The surplus competition kept even the commercial prices down. That is pretty much done. Arms treaties banning arms movements across borders, more policies limiting transfer of military surplus and likely contract seconds before long IMO. Going to cause interesting changes in the market.

No one even paid me to make these posts.
 
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So I'm following this thread, and seeing what the mag length limitations and bullet choices affect the choice of calibers.
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This is also dependent on bullet weight and type used- in addition to case length. A lot of bullet choices for any chambering- and combined with seating length affects what's going to feed from the mag.

My .260 is actually chambered in .260 "Match" for more freebore to seat out the heavy 6.5 VLD's. Due to AICS mag length limitations- it's single load only. Can't use the mag (although there is an aftermarket mag that allows for a bit more OAL than the AICS, I've been too cheap to buy them).

I only say this in response to your thought- it's not really relevant to the OP since this isn't a "long range" thread.
 
The .243Winchester is one of the most popular deer cartridges ever...it is a 6mm bore.
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For adults? I see it mentioned a lot for youth rifles and would personally say it is sufficient, but it seems like most adults go with something slightly larger in diameter.
 
Johny, while most of the % go for larger calibers than the 6mm, (.243 winchester in point), I like many know that the older hunters that use the .243 win, not only take a lot of critters but they do that with the confidence the cartridge is up to it.
I opt for larger calibers because of my experiences and love for those larger calibers, and my rifles give me utmost confidence in sealing the deal, if I'm lucky enough to see a dang deer...
 
Depending on which data set you look at, .243Win is in the top ten in centerfire rifles sold, ammo sold, reloading dies sold every year for at least the last 50 years. I have seen it as high as #3 and as low as #8. .223Rem and .308 Win always beat it, but it goes neck and neck with the .270 and .30-06 across the country and beats them in many Southern states.

Youth hunting licenses, while on the rise account for less than 10% in every state in the nation, most are less than 5%.
 
I don't have a 243 or a desire for one, but it should work fine for deer hunting. For the last 4 or 5 years I've hunted with my 260, I shot the 100 gr Nosler BT, and killed quite a few deer, coyotes and hogs of all sizes. Logic tells me that a 100 gr Nosler BT from a 243 ought to do just as well.

That said, the 120 gr Nosler does seem to kill them a bit quicker, and the 130 gr bullet in my 270 does the job even better.
 
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