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6.5 creedmore com dies
- Thread starter ky hunter
- Start date
Redding makes a micrometer adjustment you can add to their standard seating die. I don't think Forster has a micrometer head on any seating dies other than their Bench Rest dies, which have the alignment sleeve. So does the Redding Competition type seater.
The Forster die design is one they acquired the rights to that is described in a 1969 patent. The patent expired in 1989, at which point Redding introduced their Competition Seater, which copied the sliding case alignment sleeve and added a self-aligning floating seating stem and got a patent on that addition. The patent claims the floating stem addresses one situation in which the older Forster design can fail to achieve alignment. Perhaps that situation has arisen in the case of the Forster die making runout worse. Forster says, IIRC, about 10% of bullets require a custom seating stem to work properly in their die, and this may have been one of those cases. Redding has two floating stems, regular and VLD designs, but doesn't rely on custom stems.
The Forster die design is one they acquired the rights to that is described in a 1969 patent. The patent expired in 1989, at which point Redding introduced their Competition Seater, which copied the sliding case alignment sleeve and added a self-aligning floating seating stem and got a patent on that addition. The patent claims the floating stem addresses one situation in which the older Forster design can fail to achieve alignment. Perhaps that situation has arisen in the case of the Forster die making runout worse. Forster says, IIRC, about 10% of bullets require a custom seating stem to work properly in their die, and this may have been one of those cases. Redding has two floating stems, regular and VLD designs, but doesn't rely on custom stems.
Correction, The Forester Does have the sleeve but not the free floating stem like the redding.
I just took apart both. The Redding keeps me around 1 thousandths or less on runnout both on dillion and coax. The forester is between 2 and 3 thousandths even in the coax. Probably has to do with the stem.
I use primarily 168 SMKs so the stem on the redding seems perfectly honed to that bullet
I just took apart both. The Redding keeps me around 1 thousandths or less on runnout both on dillion and coax. The forester is between 2 and 3 thousandths even in the coax. Probably has to do with the stem.
I use primarily 168 SMKs so the stem on the redding seems perfectly honed to that bullet
I would scratch Forster off the list.
While they are well made dies, they also have some issues. The floating spindle breaks if it encounters a slightly bad primer situation.
Seating wise, I had issues with my 6.5 x 47 (sure don't want to misspell Lapua!) and what I found was the seater nose part was soft and bending leaving a ridge.
I solved that with a file down and a heat treat and its ok not but not as good as RCBS (6.5 x 47) is a bit tough to find competition dies for.
I have an RCBS comp seater on the way and those have done well for me.
RCBS has always been solid for me and the price is good. Maybe a serious competition shooter would benefit from more expensive dies but for something around 1/2 MOA the RCBS has done the job and I expect you have to be bench rest class A to see any difference and I am sure not that.
Yea, sometimes I get 1/4 MOA groups but day in day out 1/2 is more the norm and for a late in life casual bench rest shooter that is as good as I expect (I figured anything under 1 MOA was good so 1/2 is sweet)
While they are well made dies, they also have some issues. The floating spindle breaks if it encounters a slightly bad primer situation.
Seating wise, I had issues with my 6.5 x 47 (sure don't want to misspell Lapua!) and what I found was the seater nose part was soft and bending leaving a ridge.
I solved that with a file down and a heat treat and its ok not but not as good as RCBS (6.5 x 47) is a bit tough to find competition dies for.
I have an RCBS comp seater on the way and those have done well for me.
RCBS has always been solid for me and the price is good. Maybe a serious competition shooter would benefit from more expensive dies but for something around 1/2 MOA the RCBS has done the job and I expect you have to be bench rest class A to see any difference and I am sure not that.
Yea, sometimes I get 1/4 MOA groups but day in day out 1/2 is more the norm and for a late in life casual bench rest shooter that is as good as I expect (I figured anything under 1 MOA was good so 1/2 is sweet)
The Redding keeps me around 1 thousandths or less on runout both on dillion and coax.
I’d like to see that. I have only found one sizing die in my life that consistently gets the neck runout under 0.0015”. Every Redding die I’ve used gets the turned neck to 0.002” neck runout. So, maybe with 0 runout in the seater, I could get 0.002” runout at the bullet tip.
I measure with the 21st Century tool which shows near 0 runout on my gage pin.
Can you explain how you get those results?
Yes, I resize every case in the coax press. Then I use a lee Collet die for the necks. I give 1/2 turn then size again in the collet die on my first stage of my Dillion Press.I’d like to see that. I have only found one sizing die in my life that consistently gets the neck runout under 0.0015”. Every Redding die I’ve used gets the turned neck to 0.002” neck runout. So, maybe with 0 runout in the seater, I could get 0.002” runout at the bullet tip.
I measure with the 21st Century tool which shows near 0 runout on my gage pin.
Can you explain how you get those results?
I have used a neck expander die in stage 1 and had similar results but Im currently using undersized mandrel to increase neck tension a bit in the Lee Collet.
I was using a Lee sizing die with the expander ball removed but on this batch I used a RCBS Small base sizer die with the expander ball. and I had 1 rd that was around 2 thousandths the rest were around 1.
I was very impressed with the RCBS Die.
I will try to PM a video
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Nathan,
Your welcome.
One thing I did notice with most resizing dies that have an expander ball is that it did pull the necks off axis. I learned that from this forum.
I did several tests removing the expander ball and it helped. I did find lubing the case necks both inside and out helped alot in reducing runnout from the expander ball.
But the best I could ever achieve using only a resizing die with an expander ball and lubing the necks and a coax press was nothing better than 2thousandths runnout.
Will
Your welcome.
One thing I did notice with most resizing dies that have an expander ball is that it did pull the necks off axis. I learned that from this forum.
I did several tests removing the expander ball and it helped. I did find lubing the case necks both inside and out helped alot in reducing runnout from the expander ball.
But the best I could ever achieve using only a resizing die with an expander ball and lubing the necks and a coax press was nothing better than 2thousandths runnout.
Will
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The videos I sent you I used a RCBS Small Base Resizing die , So I was using the expander ball that came with the die. Then I used a Lee Collet Die to square up the necks.
But I can achieve same results with removing the expander ball. The reason I left the expander in the die is when it is removed the necks are undersized quite a bit , So when I size them with collet die, it takes more lube for the mandrel to be inserted in that case neck.
My runnout didnt get better or worse so I left expander in this die.
But I can achieve same results with removing the expander ball. The reason I left the expander in the die is when it is removed the necks are undersized quite a bit , So when I size them with collet die, it takes more lube for the mandrel to be inserted in that case neck.
My runnout didnt get better or worse so I left expander in this die.
Are you using an expander? If so, who’s?
I run without expanders and run the cases through an M die, works great, I hate that pull on the expander balls.
I do keep a small cap of lube next to the press and dip the necks into it when I feel a bit of tug on the M die and that is good for another 3-5 cases though I tend to do it every 3.
I just got an RCBS Match bullet seater for the 6.5 x 47. Love it. Back when I built the 6.5 I could not find one, 6.5 x 47 is a bit of an undeserved market and for good reason, its not nearly as popular as 6.5 CM.
Biggest issue was when I found there were NO large primer cases for 6.5 x 47, and I was running out of small rifle primers. My brother bailed me out with some 1000 boxes of CCI and I have been able to get a few of the 100x 3 times now and I am holding my own with primer stock.
Lots of large rifle primers and I have a 6.5 CM barrel if I need to shift. Powder is harder to get but I have a good stock of it as I buy in 5 or 8 lb jugs if I can now.
RC20,I run without expanders and run the cases through an M die, works great, I hate that pull on the expander balls.
I do keep a small cap of lube next to the press and dip the necks into it when I feel a bit of tug on the M die and that is good for another 3-5 cases though I tend to do it every 3.
I just got an RCBS Match bullet seater for the 6.5 x 47. Love it. Back when I built the 6.5 I could not find one, 6.5 x 47 is a bit of an undeserved market and for good reason, its not nearly as popular as 6.5 CM.
Biggest issue was when I found there were NO large primer cases for 6.5 x 47, and I was running out of small rifle primers. My brother bailed me out with some 1000 boxes of CCI and I have been able to get a few of the 100x 3 times now and I am holding my own with primer stock.
Lots of large rifle primers and I have a 6.5 CM barrel if I need to shift. Powder is harder to get but I have a good stock of it as I buy in 5 or 8 lb jugs if I can now.
I love my M Die and it works well. Im just tinkering with the undersized lee mandrel to increase neck tension just a wee bit and see if it improves my scores. I dont shoot groups anymore just scores. If it helps me hold a 10 ring and increase my X rings im all for it. If it doesnt will go back to my old setup