as a light game rifle. It will not supplant the 308. The 308 has obvious advantages in the ability to move bullets with more mass and the obvious plus of the vast variety of 30 caliber bullets from the 100 gr. Speer plinker to the heavyweights. The 6.5 has somewhat less recoil for the target shooters and a case designed to fit long bullets in a short action but it's real niche is a cartridge that can finally replace the 243.
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6.5 Creed will replace the 243
- Thread starter rickt300
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SPEMack618
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Doubtful. The .243 is well in grained into the shooting culture psyche as the beginners center fire cartridge for all matter of tasks.
Also, shelves at most gun shops have plentiful .243 loadings, for cheap.
6.5 CM not much.
And I also worry about the future of the cartridge when people hype it as the penultimate long range laser round and yet people buy the cheapest disposable rifles to shoot.
Also, shelves at most gun shops have plentiful .243 loadings, for cheap.
6.5 CM not much.
And I also worry about the future of the cartridge when people hype it as the penultimate long range laser round and yet people buy the cheapest disposable rifles to shoot.
Doubtful. The .243 is well in grained into the shooting culture psyche as the beginners center fire cartridge for all matter of tasks.
Also, shelves at most gun shops have plentiful .243 loadings, for cheap.
6.5 CM not much.
And I also worry about the future of the cartridge when people hype it as the penultimate long range laser round and yet people buy the cheapest disposable rifles to shoot.
Looks like yet another caliber that I will have to handload if I want to keep shooting it.
The 6.5 has somewhat less recoil for the target shooters and a case designed to fit long bullets in a short action but it's real niche is a cartridge that can finally replace the 243.
Maybe... come back in 50-60 years and tell me if it has "replaced" the .243...
I rather doubt it will.
Tell me what I get from a 6.5mm Creedmore, if I'm not shooting an AR rifle??
Nothing useful that I can see.
I have a .243. I have a 6mm Rem. I have a 6.5x55mm Swede. I have .308s. I don't have an AR pattern rifle anymore, not planning on getting one.
The .243 Winchester is offered in every kind of action that exists, from different makers. Bolt, lever, pump, various kinds of single shots, and semi autos. Until /unless the 6.5mm Creed reaches that level of popularity (not impossible, but hasn't happened yet, and really doesn't show signs of happening soon, at least) it won't begin to come close to "replacing" the .243.
Certainly the 6.5 is better for certain applications. but I don't see it enough better overall to replace ..well... anything. Supplement, yes, replace? no, I just don't think so.
"...6.5 Creed will replace the 243..." Nonsense.
"...the Creed has a shelf of it's own..." Is 100% marketing.
"...mediocre results on big deer and feral hogs..." Is operator failure. Usually caused by using the wrong bullet. Assuming you think the .243 produces those mediocre results.
"...the Creed has a shelf of it's own..." Is 100% marketing.
"...mediocre results on big deer and feral hogs..." Is operator failure. Usually caused by using the wrong bullet. Assuming you think the .243 produces those mediocre results.
it will not replace the .243.
Once in a while, things are replaced, such as the .22 hornet and the .222 by the .223, or the .300 savage by the .30-06.
When a cartridge has maybe millions of rifles chambered for it, when it does everything it is expected to do very well, and people LIKE IT, it's not going to be replaced or even retired.
Those two cartridges have absolutely nothing in common, and as far as I can recall there is not a single cartridge that is actually equivalent to what the .243 does. 100 grain bullet at 3,000 fps, low recoil medium game, or high velocity 65 grains.
Replacing it means that you expect rifles in the .243 to be no longer made, and the 6.5 cm to become the dominant cartridge in the 6mm to 257 category. Not going to happen, the .243 has been a champion for over sixty years and is still the favorite chambering in that category.
Once in a while, things are replaced, such as the .22 hornet and the .222 by the .223, or the .300 savage by the .30-06.
When a cartridge has maybe millions of rifles chambered for it, when it does everything it is expected to do very well, and people LIKE IT, it's not going to be replaced or even retired.
Those two cartridges have absolutely nothing in common, and as far as I can recall there is not a single cartridge that is actually equivalent to what the .243 does. 100 grain bullet at 3,000 fps, low recoil medium game, or high velocity 65 grains.
Replacing it means that you expect rifles in the .243 to be no longer made, and the 6.5 cm to become the dominant cartridge in the 6mm to 257 category. Not going to happen, the .243 has been a champion for over sixty years and is still the favorite chambering in that category.
bamaranger
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don't think so
The 6.5CM is being heavily pushed by the gun press, and of course the mfg's are cranking out rifles so chambered. Folks are buying it as a result. I've thought about buying one myself (in a Kimber Hunter). I can see the long range advantage. I understand it is not as hard on bores for extended shooting as the .243, and recoils less.
What keeps me from committing, is that I don't take game at the ranges he CM begins to exceed the .243, and I don't shoot the amount of ammo, in extended match strings, to need the cooler running CM. I don't need the advantages the CM offers. So it comes down to want. Do I really want a CM......when I already have two rifles in .243?
The 243 has nearly a 3/4 of a century headstart on the CM. There are tons of brass and zillions of rifles, and many, many satisfied users. I don't think the CM will be the flash in the pan that some of the "new" cartridges like the WSM's, WSSM', the Ultra mags have been......but it will not replace the .243 either.
The 6.5CM is being heavily pushed by the gun press, and of course the mfg's are cranking out rifles so chambered. Folks are buying it as a result. I've thought about buying one myself (in a Kimber Hunter). I can see the long range advantage. I understand it is not as hard on bores for extended shooting as the .243, and recoils less.
What keeps me from committing, is that I don't take game at the ranges he CM begins to exceed the .243, and I don't shoot the amount of ammo, in extended match strings, to need the cooler running CM. I don't need the advantages the CM offers. So it comes down to want. Do I really want a CM......when I already have two rifles in .243?
The 243 has nearly a 3/4 of a century headstart on the CM. There are tons of brass and zillions of rifles, and many, many satisfied users. I don't think the CM will be the flash in the pan that some of the "new" cartridges like the WSM's, WSSM', the Ultra mags have been......but it will not replace the .243 either.
bamaranger
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oops
error in previous post
I intended, "recoils less than the .308", but printed simply "recoils less"
error in previous post
I intended, "recoils less than the .308", but printed simply "recoils less"
I've been puzzled by the same thing and just can't understand it either.And I also worry about the future of the cartridge when people hype it as the penultimate long range laser round and yet people buy the cheapest disposable rifles to shoot.
No way.
The 243 does all it's asked to do and has a following going back to the 50s.
The 6.5 CM is more powerful and covers more ground than the 243, but so do many, many dozens of other rounds and I don't see the CM causing any of them to fade away either.
The CM is a good shell, but not any better then the 6.5X55 or even the 260 Remington.
It's only positive point over either one of them is it's ability to fit in a NATO length detachable mag. If your rifle is not set up with NATO length mags the 6.5CM has no advantage at all over the other shells which have a many decade head start on it (In the case of the Swede, that head start is over 100 years old). In fact, if your rifle has a magazine length only .100" longer then the inside of a NATO mag, the 6.5 CM doesn't even have a reason to exist at all.
The truth is that the CM is a great shell BECAUSE it comes so close to the old Swede's performance, but it's not the miracle the gun rags are selling you. You are the product, and they are selling YOU to the gun makers, not the other way around.
Advertising dollars are by far the largest part of the publishers budget, not subscription and new stand sales. So they have to tell you it's New and Improved to get you to buy. Advertising is the business, not truth.
It's new, but it's not improved. The ballistics are very very very old (and well proven.)
The Emperor really is naked.
The 243 does all it's asked to do and has a following going back to the 50s.
The 6.5 CM is more powerful and covers more ground than the 243, but so do many, many dozens of other rounds and I don't see the CM causing any of them to fade away either.
The CM is a good shell, but not any better then the 6.5X55 or even the 260 Remington.
It's only positive point over either one of them is it's ability to fit in a NATO length detachable mag. If your rifle is not set up with NATO length mags the 6.5CM has no advantage at all over the other shells which have a many decade head start on it (In the case of the Swede, that head start is over 100 years old). In fact, if your rifle has a magazine length only .100" longer then the inside of a NATO mag, the 6.5 CM doesn't even have a reason to exist at all.
The truth is that the CM is a great shell BECAUSE it comes so close to the old Swede's performance, but it's not the miracle the gun rags are selling you. You are the product, and they are selling YOU to the gun makers, not the other way around.
Advertising dollars are by far the largest part of the publishers budget, not subscription and new stand sales. So they have to tell you it's New and Improved to get you to buy. Advertising is the business, not truth.
It's new, but it's not improved. The ballistics are very very very old (and well proven.)
The Emperor really is naked.
The Emperor really is naked.
I heard that story as a kid, and the first time it really smacked me upside the head was when MTV came out. The world going bananas because they could see things on television.
In fact, that phrase belongs in this last century more certainly than it ever did before. With millions of dollars being spent to fuel sales, we have an even harder time to see things clearly.
The X-Files had two important things to learn. "i want to believe"? yep, that's the problem. People want to believe what they hear. Look at some of these threads, if I asked what "new gun" i should buy, I would get answers from a jennings acp up to the 'versatile' .416 remington.
The second thing is to
"TRUST NO ONE!"
Why would I believe anything that I haven't proved to be true independently? It wouldn't take more than ten minutes to determine whether a piece of equipment is what I need.
Ask questions, keep the salt handy.
SPEMack618
New member
And I do not mean to disparage entry level rifles, I've an Axis and a Ruger American Predator, but those aren't rifles I buy looking to shoot F Class matches with.
I think the 6.5 CM is an awesome round, but in now way do I see it knocking out the .243 Win in any sort of daily use.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks the best thing Remington ever did was the 600/6mm Remington combo.
I think the 6.5 CM is an awesome round, but in now way do I see it knocking out the .243 Win in any sort of daily use.
And this is coming from a guy who thinks the best thing Remington ever did was the 600/6mm Remington combo.
More 6.5 Creedmore fan-boy hype. It is not the best cartridge in the world, not even close. It is a heavily marketed cartridge designed to sell new rifles, sell more ammo, turn every dog's pup into a "long range expert", and get the AR into the hunting realm in states that won't allow 22CF. 60 years ago, the 6.5 that would do it all was the 6.5X54 MS. Then it was the 6.5X55 Swedish. Then the 264 Win Mag. Then it was the 6.5-06. Then the 260. Then the 6.5-284. Now it's the Creedmore. So what. Big deal. None of them amounted to much other than selling magazines and selling more guns.
Until they find out that it also gives mediocre performance on large deer and hogs.many that have had mediocre results on big deer and feral hogs will quickly change over to the Creed
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rickt300 said:but it's real niche is a cartridge that can finally replace the 243.
Why does the .243 need to be replaced? The 6.5 Creedmoor has already been replaced if you follow the PRS at all. Most competitors have switched to the 6mm Creedmoor or Dasher because of less recoil and caster speeds.
Pathfinder45
New member
I would have been an ideal cartridge for the Savage 99.
I would have been an ideal cartridge for the Savage 99.
You might be right. but it couldn't under any circumstances. The .250 was rated at only 45,000 psi and the cm is rated to 60,000. Otherwise, being able to load a 120 grain bullet up to about 2,800 would be pretty handy, great SD and BC, but the .250 improved would do that.
I'd hate to see someone put a CM round into one of them. They aren't fragile, but they were designed around the specifications of a round limited to only about .75% of the cm and the rifle would almost certainly suffer.
Creedmoor:
6.5 140 bc .490 sd= .287 load data: 143 gr Hornady ELD-X 2,710 ft/s
.308 win:
.308 150 bc .380 sd =.226 Load data: 150 gr Nosler tip 2,820 ft/s
Data drawn from Sierra and wikipedia, it shows that the 140 grain creedmoor has a much better ballistic coefficient than the 150 grain .308, and it only sacrifices 100 fps or so in velocity; I didn't go through the ballistics charts, but I am presuming that the creedmoor will give usefully flatter trajectories and greater remaining energy out past 200, and I personally believe that with good, controlled expansion bullets it would work just as well, or maybe even better, than a .308 in bigger game. It's fully capable of blow through on big animals with that high sd.
Just for the purposes of discussion, it's really obvious that the CM is a great cartridge, and that it can serve quite well as a large game long range round, lower recoil, short action, flat, fast, capable of excellent accuracy.
For practical purposes, though, the entire question is answered with a big "so what? The others do just as well for me". Most of those rifles loaded for the creedmoor, I truly believe, gain very little, or no advantage, because there is no benefit to be gained at the ranges where the 6.5 actually shows an edge. I've never hunted anywhere that really provided shots beyond 300. My preferred game rifle is a .243, if I ever hunted beyond 200 or so, I'd carry my 30-06, If I ever had the opportunity to hunt longer range, I'd have to get a newer, more accurate rifle, better optics, and since the option would be available, i would definitely consider buying a 6.5 creedmoor.
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