.58 muzzleloader questions

C

chickenmcnasty

New member
Hey all,

I'm considering a new muzzleloader purchase at some point in the next few months. I would like to go to a .54 or .58 for my "long range" deer rifle. Ideally I would like a gun that would get out to 200 yards if I do my job right with the iron sights, but i'm not sure which production muzzleloader would do that. I would like to stay with a sidelock, either percussion or flinter, and barrel length isn't much of an issue, and i'm not sure if I should go with a repro military rifle or something more like a Kentucky/hawken.
I guess with all this being said, which production muzzleloader has decent sights and would be accurate enough to achieve this goal? I am also torn between the twist rates in the barrel and which projectile would better achieve this. I would love to have a slow twist for round ball, but I'm sure a fast twist would be better for shooting a mini-ball more accurately. I like the thought of the larger .58 caliber, but I haven't eliminated the .54 as an option as i'm sure the trajectory is better.
Please chime in with your thoughts/opinions. I appreciate any insight you would get in this area. Thank you very much.
 
Lyman Great Plains

Taking what you posted, at face value, I'd recommend the Lyman Great Plains or Great Plains Hunter, in .54. The Hunter has the faster twist. Next step up, would be the Pedersoli but they are a lot more expensive. ..... ;)

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!
 
If you are going traditional sidelock, I suggest the Lyman Great Plains 54 -- none better value-for-the-investment. Add to that the Lyman 57/GPR aperture sight and you have an iron-sighted rifle easily capable of sighting/hitting oranges at 150yds.

That said....

That 150 yards is the limit for (IMHO) responsible hunting -- both the iron sight and the roundball begin to run out precision/energy** at that point, and your ability to precisely judge range against bullet drop has reached low ebb.



**
A 0.07" blade front site spans 12" at 150 yards/and the 230gr ball has dropped from 1,600fps to 800 (still the same as pressing a 45 automatic against the deer's chest and pulling the trigger, however). Sighted dead on at 115yds, that combination has a ±5" point-blank trajectory from muzzle to 150.
 
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Welcome to the muzzle stuffers club! Be careful, you can't have just one :D

.54 vs .58. The difference between the two is negligible. If you want a flatter trajectory get a .45 or .50 cal.

Check your local laws. In my area you cannot hunt with round ball, you must use a bullet. That may determine what rifling twist you want. A 1 in 48 twist is a good compromise if you want to shoot ball and bullets, but if you want maximum range then I would choose my rifling based on which projectile you'll be using most.

I'd recommend using a "mini" if at all possible, they will have around 50% more retained energy at 200 yards than a round ball.

For long range rifle you'll want a long barrel. Black powder is a very slow burner so every inch counts. Try to find a barrel of 30 inches or longer. Don't be afraid of even a 42 inch barrel, the added sight radius helps immensely at those longer ranges.

Boomer
 
Boomer58cal said:
Welcome to the muzzle stuffers club! Be careful, you can't have just one :D

.54 vs .58. The difference between the two is negligible. If you want a flatter trajectory get a .45 or .50 cal.

Check your local laws. In my area you cannot hunt with round ball, you must use a bullet. That may determine what rifling twist you want. A 1 in 48 twist is a good compromise if you want to shoot ball and bullets, but if you want maximum range then I would choose my rifling based on which projectile you'll be using most.

I'd recommend using a "mini" if at all possible, they will have around 50% more retained energy at 200 yards than a round ball.

For long range rifle you'll want a long barrel. Black powder is a very slow burner so every inch counts. Try to find a barrel of 30 inches or longer. Don't be afraid of even a 42 inch barrel, the added sight radius helps immensely at those longer ranges.

Boomer
Click to expand...

What is a good minie twist? Any particular recommendations as far as which rifle would be a great long distance shooter?
 
Why the .54 over the .58?
Click to expand...
You will be trading the 54's significant velocity/trajectory advantage against the 58's mass.
At the far point of useful ranges, 54's ability to hit with the effect of a 45 auto is still more
than enough. That it needs no sight-guessing/changes from muzzle to 150 (for big game)
has been the deciding factor for me.
Are the gpr's going to be as accurate as a military repro?
Click to expand...
1zlzked.jpg


I dearly love my original `61 Springfield (Colt's Special Model), but it doesn't hold a candle to my GPR above.
 
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mehavey said:
You will be trading the 54's significant velocity/trajectory advantage against the 58's mass.
At the far point of useful ranges, 54's ability to hit with the effect of a 45 auto is still more
than enough. That it needs no sight-guessing/changes from muzzle to 150 (for big game)
has been the deciding factor for me.

1zlzked.jpg


I dearly love my original `61 Springfield (Colt's Special Model), but it doesn't hold a candle to my GPR above.
Click to expand...

Great group, is that roundball or bullet? What yardage?
 
Sorry, thought the 50yd indicator was on the image. My bad. :(

Patched roundball/0.535" using strips of Hancock brand pillow-
ticking (0.019") lubed with 7:1 NAPA water-soluble cutting oil,
squeegeed dry
 
Very nice, what kind of groups is it capable of at longer yardages? I'm curious if they could all stay in deer vitals around the 150-200 yd mark.
Is that a slow twist barrel?
 
It's a 60 twist, and reliably prints 1¼" at 100 (benched). I use[d] it for off-hand
silhouette at 100 so that's as far as I've got empirical data.

Assuming a simple sphere spinning at 20,000 RPM doesn't go "unstable"
with range, that's more than enough for the 150yd max I recommend.

Your biggest error by far will still be range estimation/trajectory and hold.
Using RMS for a 1¼" moa best group, BUT combined with a 3-moa 'shake'
and a 3-moa trajectory error, the end result at 150 yards will be a 6.5" grapefruit.

Good enough... if you're really good. ;)
 
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What is a good minie twist?
Click to expand...

Anything 1/48 or faster should work fine.

Any particular recommendations as far as which riflewould bea great long distance shooter?
Click to expand...

I haven't found a modern muzzleloader that wouldn't shoot good with the right load. Unless you're going to do a lot of brush hunting, I'd get the rifle with the longest barrel.

Boomer
 
"I would like to go to a .54 or .58 for my "long range" deer rifle. Ideally I would like a gun that would get out to 200 yards if I do my job right with the iron sights"



Shooting with iron sights past 100 yards is fantasy land when hunting.

1 1/4" groups at 100 yards will get up into the record books with iron sights, most modern deer rifles with scopes will not shoot 1" groups at 100.

Lyman GPR, workmanship and quality have gone in to the pot the last several years.

Need to slow down and look at what your really want in a rifle and what is realistic from a side lock..
 
I've found the 54 GPR to be utterly reliable_no problems here.
But it was starting to kick my a&$ after 40 rounds in a silhouette match.

So I picked up a Thompson Center and put a 40 Cal Green Mtn Barrel on it (same Lyman57 aperture sight)

It might drift a bit more with wind, but like its big brother the 54, it's patched ball gives me more than I can ask for.

2enrr0g.jpg


(Don'cha just hate it when a cheap Lee mold, casting an underspec ball, outperforms perfectly swaged Hornadys,
AND my expensive/limited-run RCBS double cavity.) :rolleyes:
 
fdf said:
"I would like to go to a .54 or .58 for my "long range" deer rifle. Ideally I would like a gun that would get out to 200 yards if I do my job right with the iron sights"



Shooting with iron sights past 100 yards is fantasy land when hunting.

1 1/4" groups at 100 yards will get up into the record books with iron sights, most modern deer rifles with scopes will not shoot 1" groups at 100.

Lyman GPR, workmanship and quality have gone in to the pot the last several years.

Need to slow down and look at what your really want in a rifle and what is realistic from a side lock..
Click to expand...

With a solid rest and my 30/30 i can keep them minute of Bambi with the buckhorn sights at 200 yds. I wasn't sure if a muzzleloading rifle would be capable of the same with proper load development. We hunt in an area where shots under 150 yds are very rare, and getting deer with center fire rounds has lost its appeal.
 
If your min range is 150 and you still want to go Black,
I'd go to a classic single-shot BPCR like a 38-55 or a 45-90...
and shoot Black

I'd also break down and use a scope, for the animal's sake.
 
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Pahoo suggested the LGP-54, mehavey showed its capabilities.

Along with some wise wisdom on the suggested 150yd max. on live targets.

mehavey,

Was the LGP-54 target you posted shot at from 150yds.? If so, open sites or optics?
 
All with iron/aperture sights. Open sights are no longer an option at my age.

a5dzjs.jpg


The 54-GPR target shown previously was shot at 50 yds, but I use it for 100 yd silhouette.
The 40-T/C (with the Lyman 57 aperture above) was shot at 100.
 
With a solid restand my 30/30 i can keep them minute of Bambi with the buckhorn sights at 200 yds. I wasn't sure if a muzzleloading riflewould be capable of the same with proper load development. We hunt in an area where shots under 150 yds are very rare, and getting deer with center fire rounds has lost its appeal.
Click to expand...

The 94 Win 30-30 and my BP guns are my go to hunting rifles. My .50 and .58 will take any shot my 30-30 will do.

Boomer
 
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