@ammo crafter I actually tested the bottom end of that recipe yesterday as well. That is the more open group you see on the target below the keyhole group. It shot well and I'll continue to work with it. I'm a little wobbly so won't blame the ammo. I necksize my 222 brass but don't mind experimenting with full length.
52gn A-max keyholing. 222rem.
- Thread starter mattL46
- Start date
I worked with a XP -100 that had been rechambered to .223.14 in twist.
55 gr military bullets were beyond keyholing.
It shot 52 gr Matchkings really well.
Its not a weight thing as much as its a length thing.The A-maxes are a long bullet.
I agree,if you seat them a bit deaper,and find a powder that gives you more fps,your RPM's and stability will go up.MAYBE enough.
55 gr military bullets were beyond keyholing.
It shot 52 gr Matchkings really well.
Its not a weight thing as much as its a length thing.The A-maxes are a long bullet.
I agree,if you seat them a bit deaper,and find a powder that gives you more fps,your RPM's and stability will go up.MAYBE enough.
Hunter Customs
New member
Clark,
Have you ever considered writing a book or maybe you have written a book, either way I enjoy reading your post.
I also wished I lived close enough to hang around with you for a while.
As for plastic tipped bullets, I had a strange experience shooting some Sierra Blitzkings the other day, I've not decided yet if it was me, the bullets or the rifle.
I know the human is usually the weak link but I'm not sure that's the case this time.
I will do further testing at a latter date.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Have you ever considered writing a book or maybe you have written a book, either way I enjoy reading your post.
I also wished I lived close enough to hang around with you for a while.
As for plastic tipped bullets, I had a strange experience shooting some Sierra Blitzkings the other day, I've not decided yet if it was me, the bullets or the rifle.
I know the human is usually the weak link but I'm not sure that's the case this time.
I will do further testing at a latter date.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Thanks Bob,
I am currently just working on making gun forum posts.
The last time it felt like I got something done was on Mosin Nagant trigger mods
I can tell from the date, I have not done much in 5 years.
That video got 20k views and 100 thumbs up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn8IdNJ_SE
I am currently working on a universal Mauser steel bedding idea.
If I could do a good video on that, I would feel successful.
I am currently just working on making gun forum posts.
The last time it felt like I got something done was on Mosin Nagant trigger mods
I can tell from the date, I have not done much in 5 years.
That video got 20k views and 100 thumbs up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn8IdNJ_SE
I am currently working on a universal Mauser steel bedding idea.
If I could do a good video on that, I would feel successful.
ammo.crafter said:
I have the same rifle and it also likes 4198, though I use a milder primer in it. I use the Federal 205M now, but back in the 1980's I ran it on Remington 6½ primers which are meant for even milder pressures, but I never had an issue with them using the charge from the Lee powder scoop that came with the Zero Error reloader I loaded for it with at that time. I recall that scoop threw about 18 grains of 4198, and the rifle loved it. I found the flat base 50 grain Hornady SP's (0.660" long) would drill even tighter cloverleaves than the 52 grain Sierra BTHP MatchKing (0.717" long) would do with that 14" twist.
MattL46,
You are up against a stabilization limit with your 0.8" bullet and the 14" twist. Speeding up can help a little, but the improvement is the result of the drag coefficient getting lower as velocity increases past Mach 1, and the advantage that offers gets smaller until there is no more advantage at around Mach 5 and up. You could climb a mountain and shoot in thinner air and get stability because the overturning drag forces are lower in thinner air. However, operating at the same altitude, even if you nudge past the 1.0 stability factor point and stop keyholing, accuracy will not be inspiring. You want a shorter bullet.
@unclenick, thanks for your input. That's pretty much the conclusion I've came too. Instead of fussing with one bullet I think I'll just play with another, certainly when my rifle loves the 52gn Sierra HPBT. BL(C)2 performs very well with the Sierra bullet in my rifle. I've been wanting to try the lighter jobs as well. The factory loaded Hornady 40gn performs quite well in this little Sako as well. I won't fuss with them. I'll trade them away or hang onto them for something with a faster twist rate down the road.
Spot on AMP.
When the centerfire 22 fad began following introduction of the 222 in the early 50s, all of the rifles had slow twists. I remember bullets around 52 grains and Rem 722s shooting sub moa groups back in those days. I used to have one which I sold years ago.
Back in the 50s everyone wanted a "triple deuce" and when the 222Mag was introduced, Rem had another winner. Both cartridges have been on the path to extinction since the .223 was introduced.
Now the trend is towards longer bullets and faster twists. People with older rifles need to keep this in mind when buying ammo or reloading for the oldies.
I once owned an early Ruger Mini 14 with a slow twist. Although Mini14s are not known for accuracy, when I shot bullets 62gr or more at 100 yds, I was lucky to hit the paper. Had to use bullets of 55gr or less for any respectable accuracy.
I have been working with my Rem. 700 Varmint special since 79 and it's my favorite.
It took me a wile to find the right powder for it. BLC2 is one of my favorites another is H-4895 and Win.748 can be good. I recently purchased a Lbs. of Benchmark to try it out. I have tried more powders that are suppose to be good but I couldn't get them tuned in.
Primers also need to be carefully selected. At this point Rem. 7 1/2 or 7 1/2 BR. I have found Rem. or Win. cases are pretty good although that is after lots of critiquing. I finely spent money on some Lapua but haven't used them yet. I have found the bumping of .002" FL sizing seams to help with Redding Dies. Stay away from those boat tail bullets. You don't need them. As the guys mentioned use flat base. If you can find some Hornady 50gr. SX you will be happy. Although there are lots of 50gr. bullets that shoot well but I don't like spending big bucks when some of the old cheepes shoot as good or better. I never could get my Rifle to shoot those 52 or 53 gr. bullets into small groups. Use those bullets you don't like to fire form.
Stay off the lands you don't need pressure spikes. Get your self a good rest and make sure the stock is secure.
It took me a wile to find the right powder for it. BLC2 is one of my favorites another is H-4895 and Win.748 can be good. I recently purchased a Lbs. of Benchmark to try it out. I have tried more powders that are suppose to be good but I couldn't get them tuned in.
Primers also need to be carefully selected. At this point Rem. 7 1/2 or 7 1/2 BR. I have found Rem. or Win. cases are pretty good although that is after lots of critiquing. I finely spent money on some Lapua but haven't used them yet. I have found the bumping of .002" FL sizing seams to help with Redding Dies. Stay away from those boat tail bullets. You don't need them. As the guys mentioned use flat base. If you can find some Hornady 50gr. SX you will be happy. Although there are lots of 50gr. bullets that shoot well but I don't like spending big bucks when some of the old cheepes shoot as good or better. I never could get my Rifle to shoot those 52 or 53 gr. bullets into small groups. Use those bullets you don't like to fire form.
Stay off the lands you don't need pressure spikes. Get your self a good rest and make sure the stock is secure.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
I would look into some 40 grain V Max, or Ballistic Tips. A friend of the family has an old .222 Remington that will shoot half inch or better at 100 yards off of sand bags with them. Not sure on the powder though.
"I agree that it is worth a try. They didn't all key hole. The last shot was the worst. That is the one you see that flopped to its side. The first was an ugly hole the second I think it spun fairly true."
OK so here's what you're seeing. Keyholing bullets don't just fly along sidewise, they're yawing or tumbling end over end. Some may hit the target nose on, tail on, yawing, or all out broadside. The fact that the bullets were hitting close together indicates that they were stabilized for most of the distance to the target. Some were still flying properly at the target distance but some (lower FPS) were already de-stabilized at that range.
An all out tumbling bullet is likely to completely miss a 12" x 12" target at 10 yards.
OK so here's what you're seeing. Keyholing bullets don't just fly along sidewise, they're yawing or tumbling end over end. Some may hit the target nose on, tail on, yawing, or all out broadside. The fact that the bullets were hitting close together indicates that they were stabilized for most of the distance to the target. Some were still flying properly at the target distance but some (lower FPS) were already de-stabilized at that range.
An all out tumbling bullet is likely to completely miss a 12" x 12" target at 10 yards.
The targets do! show quite a lateral spread for a 222. I believe that shows pressure spikes. That would tell me that you need to change your seating depth because it is adding variability to your velocity.
There are people out there that have much more experience with target reading than my self. I would like to hear what some of them have to say on the subject of target group reading.
There are people out there that have much more experience with target reading than my self. I would like to hear what some of them have to say on the subject of target group reading.