50 Caliber for dangerous game

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As heavy as those 12 g slugs are, they don't develop much energy, a little over 2000 ftpnds in most cases. And then there is the slug construction itself, soft led.

4000 foot pounds seams to be the low threshold for DG. Hard solid bullets are the rule, copper brass alloys and such
 
As heavy as those 12 g slugs are, they don't develop much energy, a little over 2000 ftpnds in most cases. And then there is the slug construction itself, soft led.
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For 12ga slugs based on technology from 50 years ago, that would be true.

It's not true at all of modern slug designs.

The Remington Core-Lokt Ultra is a good example. 385gr Core-Lokt Ultra bullet at 1900fps. That's 3086 ft/lbs.

Dixie Slugs produces a rather "old school" slug specifically designed for dangerous game.... 730gr @ 1400fps, that's 3177ft/lbs.... and from a 20" barrel.
 
Bell used a 7 X 57 Mauser for elephants.

An expensive double rifle is NOT mandatory. Most countries have a minimum caliber of 375 for dangerous game. Most hunters form the US at this time seem to favor the 416 in one of the various bolt action flavors. Shooting sticks CAN be used, and are frequently. The DG gives the advantage of an immediate second shot, which - when hunting in the bush, especially buffalo and elephant, is always a good thing. Most shots at elephants, etc. are under 100 yards, many under 50 - considering those animals can close that distance in about 1 second, it pays to be able to get a second shot off quickly.

Recent Orlando SCI fundraiser had a woman speaker who harvested the "Big 5" in one month using a bow - typical distances were 25-30 yards
 
For 12ga slugs based on technology from 50 years ago, that would be true.

It's not true at all of modern slug designs.

The Remington Core-Lokt Ultra is a good example. 385gr Core-Lokt Ultra bullet at 1900fps. That's 3086 ft/lbs.

Dixie Slugs produces a rather "old school" slug specifically designed for dangerous game.... 730gr @ 1400fps, that's 3177ft/lbs.... and from a 20" barrel.
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A few may breach the 3000# mark, still anemic compared to the standard for DG
 
I'm not a hunter... but how'd that be taking an elephant from 1000 yards with a 50BMG?!?! LMAO! Sit in a hotel room and take out a buffalo from 1.5 miles! LMAO!

I do see the OP's idea and where he was going with this, because it would make sense in alot of ways to use the 50BMG. Cheap to shoot and practice with... plus, the killing power is unrivaled from a gun that CAN be carried by one dude.
 
kimberdawg said:
A 400 gr 40 caliber bullet at 2400 fps will kill anything that walks IF you can shoot it well. (look at the new 400 H&H as a prime example)

Anyone who plans to hunt thick skinned African game with a 12 bore deerslug better get his insurance policy updated.
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Fascinating.

The 9.3X62 (36cal) is entirely adequate at 3500ft/lbs and a 7X57(285cal) at 32-3300ft/lbs can "kill more elephants that any of us will ever see" but a 54cal bullet at 400gr and 3100ft/lbs is a death wish?

Interesting take on physics you've got there.
 
I don't typically reply on threads once they start going stratosperic, but here goes anyway.
The 9.3X62 (36cal) is entirely adequate at 3500ft/lbs and a 7X57(285cal) at 32-3300ft/lbs can "kill more elephants that any of us will ever see" but a 54cal bullet at 400gr and 3100ft/lbs is a death wish?
Interesting take on physics you've got there.
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By 54-cal 400 gr slug, I would assume you are talking about 12-ga saboted rounds, but it doesn't matter. I bet few PH would consider using a 12-ga slug for anything heavier than leopard or bush pig, and definitely not for anything that can stomp you into a soft lump (rhino, hippo, buffalo, etc). The reason is that 12-ga slugs have very poor sectional density, and with their large frontal diameter they are slowed and stopped very quickly. If you read a few books written by PH you will find that most use the best tool for the job because they want to go home at the end of the day. A heavy 375 to 40-cal bullet will outpenetrate a 12-ga slug any day, and penetration is the key to killing an animal quickly.

I don't know where you buy your 7X57 ammo, but a 7X57 with heavy bullets (typically 168-175 gr at 2,400 fps) generates about 2,400 ft-lbs of energy. 3,200 ft-lbs it 7mm RUM territory.

And WDM Bell's first name was Walter. They called him Karamojo (not Kilimanjaro) because that was the area he was licensed to hunt in.
 
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"And WDM Bell's first name was Walter. They called him Karamojo (not Kilimanjaro) because that was the area he was licensed to hunt in."


I have family who live in Ohio and friends who live in Iowa, both places where you have to hunt deer with slugs. And I have done it myself personally with 20 gauges and 12 gauges.

That being said, I think they are dismal killers of game. They are good on thin skinned game like white tailed deer at 100 yds max. and thats about it. I don't care what action it is, what kind of new super slam 5000 slug, scope or no scope, or if it has a rifled barrel. None of this makes up for the fact that it is a huge flying brick going so slow you can almost see it.

I have heard claims from lots of people of making long range shots with slug guns. If they didn't use a laser rangefinder, I automatically knock their claimed range in half. Most of these folks live in the eastern or mid western US where long shots are the exception and not the norm. These people are not used to viewing things in wide open spaces and are usually pretty poor at range estimation. So when they see a deer in a large corn field or a power line right of way, they have no real frame of reference for the range. The madder they get when I say this is usually an indication of how much it applies to them.

I have no doubt that a 12 ga with a modern slug will shoot through a white tail at less than 100 yds. So what? What WON'T shoot through one, they are not big animals and they have very thin skin. Anyone who thinks a white tail is a big animal should consider that an Elk is about 4-5 times heavier and that a huge white tail is an average/small mule deer.

As for hunting African game with one, if you stick to close shots like in brush or while staking out a water hole, and stick to thin skinned game, I see no problem with it. The only time I could think of where it would be good for something dangerous would be sitting in a leopard blind over bait. leopards are very thin skinned and the shots are close. I imagine a slug gun would do a number on one.

Back in the day, winchester experimented with a brass 12 Ga. shell necked down to 70 caliber and loaded with 150 grains of powder. They were going to chamber this in the 1887 lever action and market it as an elephant gun. Never made it off the ground, but wouldn't it have been something to see? The 1887 ended up a shot gun.

Anyways just my 2 cents.
 
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When dangerous game gets up close and personal, you want a firearm that's somewhat more "handy" than most 50 BMG's are. Those expensive doubles and bolt action rifles are reliable, and handy.

Another reason is nostalgia. Many folks who hunt Africa aren't just going there to "kill animals". Lots of other reasons for going, and a 50 BMG may or may not be "practical", but it's certianly not "traditional".

And, the reasons for individual choices are endless.

Daryl
 
I don't think I'm arguing that a 12ga is an ideal dangerous game gun.

I am comparing it to the idea of carrying a 50BMG. I would carry a 12ga with high-end slugs ANY DAY over a 50BMG.

As for this nonsense that a slug is "a huge brick flying so slow you can almost see it." or implications that a 12ga lacks in penetration, such statements are only an indication of limited or no exposure to shotguning. Even a cursory look at the performance numbers on any number of websites would dispel that nonsense.
 
werent the "paradox" shotguns/double rifles used in africa a fair extent?


Basically a heavy shotgun with a fixed rifled choke, costs about as much as a small house from holland and holland
 
Dang, you 12ga guys really are serious. :)

I prefer to hunt deer with .308. I hunt turkeys with 12ga. I am not someone who thinks bigger is better, just trying to pose a logical question that seems might have a few advantages if you take away all the nostalgia and 'rules' that go with DG hunting (at least what i read).

I hope to go DG hunting one day, maybe when i can afford a rifle that is 'appropriate' (read 'expensive').

My original question was posed as thinking outside the box. I agree it would not be easy to shoulder or maybe fire due to recoil. but if you COULD hit something, then no second shot necessary and no charging animals= less dangerous and just dead game, which is the whole point, right?
 
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