50 Caliber for dangerous game

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slab11

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So here are the questions: Why all the fuss about double rifles that cost more than a nice BMW? Why pay 10 grand for a custom bolt gun in 400 caliber+. Why spend 5-20 bucks per round for a .500 nitro. Why worry about a second shot?
Why not a 50bmg, shoulder fired weapon, using hunting sticks for dangerous game. check out the energy, check out the ballistics...these are available for less than 5G and ammo is available for cheap.

I sent this question to an editor of a well known gun magazine and he had some good reasons why not, but wanted to get everyone's take on this.
 
How long do you think you can hump a 50 around in the african wilderness. Allday??? That is why guys carry other guns but those over priced doubles are for guy with to much money.
 
A 50BMG?

How about a 12ga? It will cleanly kill anything on the planet, ammo is anywhere and cheap and the guns are $500 - $1000 for a good one.
 
The double rifle offers an immediate follow up shot. Very few if any PH will allow muzzlebrakes and not many folks could handle the recoil of a 50 BMG in a rifle that's "humpable".
 
Being a military cartridge, typically fired in a military-type rifle is more likely the main reason. Most countries do not allow that to be brought into the country
 
Guessing - but here goes:

With the political situation in many African countries, not many are going to too keen on some stranger carrying around what amounts to a long range sniper rifle, could fall into rebel hands or maybe the hunter isn't a hunter after all.

Probably some issues getting a .50BMG into the country, remember; it's a military cartridge with limited civilian use.

Safaris are run by professional hunters who tend to be very traditional and use traditional weapons. You can't just go running around in the bush by yourself with a giant sniper rifle.

I imagine the long range reach is an issue as well, as far as I know, safari types don't shoot elephants and cape buffalo from 1000 yds. The types of shots taken usually dictate a powerful, but easy to swing on a target at short range rifle.

All in all, the .50BMG would obviously take down any animal you chose to shoot, but it's just unsuitable for the way safaris are run.
 
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The reasons that the editor of Rifle magazine stated are similar: Countries will not allow it. You cannot carry it far. PH's will not accept. You must be able to shoot it without sticks and the PH will make sure of this.

So, do hunters of dangerous game really want for the hunt to be dangerous? If so, take a small caliber weapon. If not, then take a large caliber weapon and shoot from afar.

I once went to a bull fight in mexico thinking that it would be very sportive, having read The Sun Also Rises in high school. It is supposed to be dangerous, right? I have to admit, the bull had NO chance. No sport. It was utterly repulsive and inhumane.

Back to my original question: Seems that taking a 50bmg and shooting from farther away might make the hunt more humane and less 'dangerous'. Which, I suspect anyone able to pay $10,000+ for a gun and $15,000 for the hunt, plus air, plus taking care of the animal, etc might REALLY want to actually survive the hunt.

I have never been on safari, but seems like it is really a huge paradox to hunt dangerous game close with a smaller weapon that you really need a second shot on. Come on, the animal is supposed to die, right, not the hunter?
 
You could call in the Air Force to drop a JDAM on an elephant from 4 miles away, but would you feel any success or accomplishment? Doubtful. The point of a dangerous hunt is to prove your worth as a hunter and achieve an adrenaline rush beyond anything else you could get elsewhere. That doesn't mean go attack a lion with a knife, but i don't think sniping an animal from 1000yards+ would be much excitement if you are going to go hunting any game of that nature. As for the price of double rifles... forget about it.
 
Well, i'm not really talking about sniping an elephant from 1000 yards. But it does seem more logical to take a rested shot at 100 yards than an off-hand shot at 30 on a moving animal, with the possibility of having to make a life saving 2nd shot if you miss or something goes wrong.
In the world of deer hunting which I am much more familiar with, I use all of the advantages that are legally possible. Best scope, best rifle, best rest, and this animal is not even close to dangerous. So why the difference in theory for dangerous game?

Seems hypocritical to say "well if you are going to hunt dangerous game you must do it from point blank range with a charging animal and you must use a $10,000 rifle that might require a second shot or a saving shot from the PH"
 
I think there are cheaper and more practiable ways to go.

In the 70s I built a 416 Rigby on a 1917 Enfield Action. That was before Rigby would let people sell components or the rigby. I had to make my brass by cutting off the belts of 460 Wby cases and running them through the Rigby sizing die.

Anyway, its a bit lighter then the 50 Cal, and legal in most countries in Africa.

You can get pretting fast with it, using cast bullets and trailboss, shooting a few rapid fire strings.

I bet I dont have $200 in that gun.
 
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Samentics

If I had the money to order/buy .50BMG then I would order one chambered in 12.7x99 Browning:rolleyes: or a 30.06x1.667;) and get that scribbled on the barrel instead! It is a risk for sure but who knows it would be doable?
 
In many types of terrain in southern africa, you won't get a long shot anyway. The brush is pretty thick and a lot of the year the grass is so tall that you would take a standing shot anyway. Plus, you aren't going to be shooting many cats from far away - they can hide themselves pretty easily most of the time. jmho, but I would take something short, easy to sight, with a guaranteed second shot. I've seen lions up close - they don't mess around.
 
I have to disagree with the gentleman that says a 12 guage can kill anything on earth. I am unfamiliar with 12 guage slug hunting because of where I live and the ranges we hunt here, however I have read about every African hunting story written by proffesional hunters and never heard of anything bigger than a 400 pound lion shot with one. Using standard foster type slugs, many fail to penatrate small whitetails completely according to meat processers. I would like to hear some actual penatration results on big game with the new super hard slugs. Another problem is the wide frontal area of a slug that slows penatration. The mighty 600 Nitro and 577 Nitro had penatration issues on elephants because the large frontal area slowed needed penatration. The 12 guage is blunter yet and @72 caliber. Hope to hear from some people who have used the 12 guage on 800 pound plus animals.
 
re:slab11

Wasn't there a guy, named Bell I believe, that shot elephants with rifles shooting cartridges slightly smaller then the .50BMG?
 
I have a hard time considering this a serious question, really, but here goes:

DG mostly means Africa. Those here who have hunted there speak of the miles of walking during the hunts. You're not going to do that with 25 or more pounds of rifle. I don't think so, anyway, and I've done many and many a twelve to fifteen mile walking hunt with 9.5 pounds of '06 in seriously rugged country.

A heavy rifle won't come up and on point in a hurry, and DG is often a case of real, fast hurry.

Any .50 BMG light enough to carry won't be shot more than once, or at least not until the shoulder heals.

The big-bore rifle cartridges are said to recoil with more of a solid push than of a jolting impact. Figures; they're relatively low-pressure loadings. The .50 BMG is a high intensity cartridge and from witnessing them being shot from rifles, I can understand the difference.

All in all it's a silly idea.
 
Wasn't there a guy, named Bell I believe, that shot elephants with rifles shooting cartridges slightly smaller then the .50BMG?
Click to expand...

Kilamanjaro Bell's rifle was just barely smaller than .50 cal..........and he only shot a couple elephants...........its not like he made his living like that :D
 
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The differences between a fine double and a BMW:

A fine double is reliable

A fine double has excellent resale, to the point of being a good investment.

Some of the doubles my grandfather bought are worth 6x more today




A DG rifle not only has to be absolutely life or death reliable, it must come to aim quickly, swing smoothly as a sporting shotgun would. Balance is very important.

Ever shoulder a Perazzi after shooting an 870 your whole life? Really something to behold, quail fly slower so they can see your beautiful shooting piece.




Finally, if you are going to be stomped and gored to death by 1000 pounds of Black Death, wouldn't you rather be holding a $70,000 work of art when you meet your maker?
 
Really, a 50 BMG for hunting? Are you kidding? Obviously a newb or an inexperienced hunter who thinks bigger is always better. Since we seem to be talking elephants, let's ramble down that road for a moment.

OK. A few points to consider:
* A 50 BMG rifle weighs about 30 lbs, versus a 460 Weatherby weighing about 14. By the end of the day, that means the 50 BMG rifle weighs about 2 tons, if you can make it to the end of the day.
* A 50 BMG bolt rifle delivers over twice the energy that a 460 Weatherby does. It also has roughly twice the recoil. That is no small matter, as many guides in Africa are hesitant to let clients shoot a rifle that will effectively stun the shooter because it makes getting away from a charging animal very difficult, which in turn causes a lot of paperwork and cuts down on return business.
* A 50 BMG burns over twice as much powder as a 460 Weatherby, making muzzle blast somewhat debilitating. The fireball out the sides of the muzzlebrake can be 10 feet in diameter, and the concussion will cave in car windows at 50 feet.
* A 50 BMG has an effective range of about 2 miles, roughly 1.9 miles farther than that of the the 460 Weatherby. Elephants are usually shot at very close range, often measured in feet.
* A miss with a 50 BMG is the same as a miss with a 460 Weatherby, which is why a lot of elephants are harvested with 404s, 416s, and 458s. Some very good shooters used to use things like 300 H&H and 318 Westley Richards back when it was allowed, and yes, even the 7X57 (WDM "Karamojo" Bell).
* In summary, you don't need 13,700 ft-lbs of energy to kill an elephant unless you want it skinned and gutted at the same time. Elephants are often killed with very normal cartridges like the 30-06 during culling operations. Ivory poachers use AKs in 7.62X39. And folks used to use black powder firearms years ago because that was all there was to use. The reason you use a big gun for elephant is to anchor it where it stands when you are only feet away from it, and to penetrate to the vitals or CNS. And you don't need a $20,000 double rifle, a lot of very bright engineers designed some very adequate cartridges that come in very portable bolt action rifles that don't cost as much as the car you wish you could drive. Besides, as stated above, the only advantage a double rifle has is the quick second shot.
 
30-30remchester said:
I have to disagree with the gentleman that says a 12 guage can kill anything on earth. I am unfamiliar with 12 guage slug hunting because of where I live and the ranges we hunt here, however I have read about every African hunting story written by proffesional hunters and never heard of anything bigger than a 400 pound lion shot with one. Using standard foster type slugs, many fail to penatrate small whitetails completely according to meat processers.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm NOT unfamiliar with 12ga hunting. Every deer that I've ever seen hit with a 12ga was a complete pass-through. Every-Single-One. Including one that was shot in the "posterior" region, facing straight away from the hunter and the slug exited the neck, just between the shoulder and neck actually.

Anyone who believes that a 12ga lacks in penetration has never seen one in action. Particularly at close range. The effect of a 400gr, 385gr, slug at 1600-1900fps is something to behold.

I don't doubt that no one uses them in Africa. I do doubt that effectiveness is the reason. The likelihood for shots over 100 yards on other game may be a reason, but close and personal effectiveness is not.
 
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