475 Linebaugh?

G

GI Joe

New member
Having just acquired a Savage Safari rifle in 458 Win Mag, I thought an equally heavy duty handgun would be a nice complement. I have a Taurus Raging Bull in 454 Casull and Desert Eagle in 50 AE, so my question is will the Linebaugh give any significant increase in ballistics or effectiveness other than shattering my wrists? Judging by one of the Gun Digest annuals, the 454 actually delivers more energy and velocity, whereas the 475 delivers a bigger bullet. I wouldn't shoot more than a cylinder at one time much like I plan to do with the 458 when I get bullets for it. Is recoil greatly or slightly increased with the 475 versus the 454 or 50 AE?

As a side note, going through one of my dealer's catalogs, I saw where I could get Hornady 400 gr bullet for $15.99 per box of 20. That is a far cry from most other makers of this caliber.

Finally, what's the going price on one of Freedom Arms revolvers? The cheapest I've seen is around $1500 for the field model in the catalogs.

Thanks for all replies.
 
It was John Linebaugh who invented the .475; if you want to understand what was going on in his head when he rolled it up, you need to go to his website and do some reading :).

http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh

Short form: most of what's on the website is dealing with his earlier work on the .45LC taken to near-454 extremes, and why the .45LC is better than the .44Mag. He's using case volume to get major work done at lower peak pressures...which is what drove him to the .475 and .500 later. The new Ruger 480 caliber is really a ".475 short", allowing them to come close to .454 power levels but at less peak pressure and hence less "brutal" recoil.

If I were spending my money on a serious outdoors handgun, I'd consider taking a standard Ruger Bisley (either Blackhawk Bisley or Vaquero Bisley) and sending it to Linebaugh for his "lowest level" of custom, which is an oversize custom 6-shot cylinder in .45LC line-bored to a custom 5" barrel. Or Jim Stroh at Alpha can do the same basic thing. Total cost would be less than a Premier Grade FA, barely over the cost of a Field Grade and I'd have the Bisley grip frame with it's recoil advantage, and a sixth shot. .45LC with about a 325 to 350grain hardcast doing about 1,300fps is still a walloping load without being a wrist-breaker.
 
I don't belive a 475 Linebaugh is going to get you anything over the 454 Casull you already have. A heavy bullet 454 load is going to shoot through pretty much anything you hit in North America, a .02" larger hole that goes through isn't going to kill something any deader.

Recoil is very subjective but using max loads everyone I've ever heard from says the 475 has significantly more recoil than a 454 in fairly comparable guns, a Ruger Bisley and a FA Casull. Felt recoil from a 475 Ruger or FA is going to considerably different from your Taurus 454.

A 475 Linebaugh or FA would be a fine revolver, and either would make a great companion to your 458 rifle, but since you already have a 454 I wouldn't buy one because you need more power. Now, if you just want a 475 that's a totally different situation and I would say go for it if you can afford one, but don't expect it to really do more than what you already have.
 
If you can find one, Magnum Research makes a revolver in 45/70. I have one of these and they are quite a bit easier on the shooter that a 454. They have a gentle roll and are a real hoot. Very accurate also.
 
What the .475 will get you...

Is a lighter gun! Go ahead, lug that Raging Bull around in the woods for a while, then try a Ruger single action.

Not only does the .475 have more "whump" it's in a lighter package. Sure, more recoil, big deal...you're already in that arena, might as well lighten the load, right?

Jim's right, what do you want to shoot that needs more than a .45 Colt?

BTW, Jim, I was just talking to John Linebaugh today about getting a 5 shot cylinder built for my Bisley...know what he said? "You don't need it."

He said to take a look here:

http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/penetration_test.htm

His 335gr. .45 Colt load at 1300 fps isn't listed, but as you can imagine, it fits right between the 300 at 1180 and the 350 at 1400. Basically, the 350 at 1400 in a 5 shot gun penetrated less than 3" more than the 325 at 1300 (not listed) in wet newspaper. In his words, "You don't need the oversize 5 shot. The factory 6 shot is sufficient for everything."

Wow.


GI Joe, are you listening?


Legal mumbo jumbo: DO NOT DUPLICATE THESE LOADS UNLESS YOU'RE USING A RUGER OR FREEDOM ARMS HANDGUN IN PERFECT WORKING ORDER!
 
Pretty significant when the man building the 475 tells you you don't need it.

Steve your comments about the 475 being lighter are important as well, if GI Joe (or anyone else) is going to be doing much hiking, especially at higher alt's, the weight difference will mean a lot at the end of the day.

Since bullet weight and not velocity seems to be the key to more penetration maybe a Ruger Bisley converted to 480 Ruger would make more sense than a 475. But even then I question wether you're really going to be gaining much over a 335 LBT or 340gr SSK 45 Colt, other than doubling the cost of the revolver.

Thanks for the link to the Linebaugh seminar test results, I'd lost that one.
 
www.buffalobore.com sells a factory .45LC 325grain hardcast rated for 1,300fps from a 5.5" barrel if I recall right.

That load can be shot out of any .454 gun, including GI Joe's current Taurus.

If I were him, I'd score some, see how they felt to shoot, do some penetration tests, and think long and hard about whether or not those were adequate to my needs.

If they are, then either shoot 'em out of the Taurus or think about a lighter, easier-packing Ruger SA. A Ruger Bisley-Vaquero with a 4.6" barrel will weight about 39oz in caliber .45LC and the Bisley grip has gained a wonderful rep for recoil control - it may turn out to be easier to handle than the very same ammo in the Taurus despite the Taurus being somewhere over 55oz I think it is?
 
Four seventy five Linebaugh is actually a better cartridge than .454 Casull. Lower pressure and common components (non specialized bullets to handle increased pressure) make it a better platform. Both cartridges are a quantum leap more powerful than .45 Long Colt. Even though I agree that there is nothing in the North American Continent that can't be harvested with a 45 LC or equal.

Robert
 
WeShoot2, how about the 350 LBT going 122 to 1300 that I have from an old Linebaugh note. Even HE noted that it was too much except for the HEAVIEST game.

I can send you a scan of that note if you're interested! Shoot me an email.
 
.475 Linebaugh -WESHOOT etc-

I believe weshoot hit the wrong key when entering the velocity of the 360gner from a RH?
Generally, the "experts" claim that a heavy bullet (300-450gn) at 1200-1300fps is sufficent for hunting NA game. Personally the Linebaughs whether the .475 or the .500 give me a little more confidance around the big Alaskan bears. Both the Linebaughs can be loaded to run 440s@1500fps, heap big bear medicine!
 
I have a 7 1/2 barrel FA 454 and a Gary Reeder 500 Linebaugh with about a 5" barrel. My shooting partner has the 4 5/8" FA in 454. My friend feels that the recoil from maximum loads in his short 454 is sharper and more uncomfortable than that of my 500. I think the 500 has a bit more overall recoil, but agree that the short 454 smacks one really sharply. The 7 1/2 FA has a 2X Leupold on it and the higher overall weight makes it seem almost comfortable compared with the other two.

My 500 really pounds the heavy steel plates, but the 454 with maximum loads is no slouch either. When I bought the 500, Gary told me that based on his customers' experience in Africa, it is a somewhat better close-range stopper than either the 454 or 475. However, the 454 and 475 offer some advantages for handgun hunting at longer ranges (that's why I kept the scoped 7 1/2" FA 454).

A 500 made at about the same time as mine went to a prosperous physician who took it to Africa and over a couple years made two single-shot kills on bull elephants. The bullets supposedly penetrated 4 1/2 feet of skull/spine. I haven't shot any game with mine yet, but hope to try it on a hog.
 
SWSurgeon: I know Gary Reeder has a habit of slightly altering Ruger grips for a more "rounded" feel but despite any such alterations (if present), can you figure out if the grip on the 500 is essentially based on a Ruger-type Bisley grip?

That would explain why the 500 is relatively controllable, if so.
 
Jim,

It is definitely a Bisley style grip. The backstrap is really massive and the grip panels are extemely comfortable. Overall, one of the most comfortable grips I've ever used. My only reservation is that the grip panels could be a little too slippery for wet Alaska conditions. When going to Alaska, I'm thinking of putting on a couple strips of the adhesive-backed abrasive material Brownells sells. You wouldn't want to do that for target shooting or dry-climate hunting because it would abrade your palm a lot, but when out in the Alaska bush I would plan to use it only for emergencies (and when my 590 Mariner was out of reach).
 
Linebaughs -Gripframes etc-

Reeder...uses the Ruger Bisley Gripframe or whatever the customer wants.
I've got two .500s and two .475s, both the .500s are P&R parts kits I assembled. One is a 3 7/8 barrel with scalloped frame and lightened XR3Red gripframe for a light weight 38oz.
The other is a 5 1/2 with full length Hunter ejector housing and Bisley gripframe, hamer and trigger. I like the curved Bisley trigger and used one on the light weight .500 Vaquero also.
Try to locate stags for both strength and added traction, I use them on several big bores.
I've been experimenting with a .512 475gn bullet that I got from a guy up in Fairbanks, it was designed for the single shot crowd but works well in the Linebaughs! It looks like a Giant Keith style and is very accurate in the 1200-1350fps range w/o a gas check.
 
As usual, you have all given me a lot to think about. It seems that the general consensus regarding the 475 Linebaugh is that its ballistic advantage is relatively marginal over the 454 while being a lot more uncomfortable to shoot. Is that a reasonable assumption? Not to mention that the Freedom Arms revolver costs somewhere in the $1500 range. Still, if I ever get that kind of money lying around, I'd be ecstatic to get one just to have "the biggest most powerful" on the block type of thing.

I suppose a somewhat cheaper alternative would be buying a Ruger or Taurus revolver in 480 Ruger for about $600. It is essentially to the 475 Linebaugh what the 38 special is to the 357 Magnum. It would have less velocity and energy than the 454, but have a slightly bigger and heavier bullet which should account for something in the power department. What do you think?
 
Mass is king. John pretty much proved that.

"Energy" is not a good way to decide which handgun rounds is the most effective on game, as my .223 Rem has much more "energy" than my .45 Colt loads, but which will be more effective on a bull elk? The Taylor KO factor, while not perfect, is closer by far to equating a raund to killing power.

I think that since you already own a .454, then your next purchase should be a .500 Linebaugh if you want to have some bigger power. Bigger bullet, more mass, deeper penetration. Besides, you'll like having the power in a lighter package than your Raging Bull.


BTW, I used to own a "ragging bull." I liked it for what it was, but I always felt it was "weak" and would eventually shoot itself apart, and also felt that it was too heavy. Don't decide to sell it, though, because you'll take a beating. Just keep shooting it!
 
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