45acp for hunting?

V-Max, apparently you have not read much on our topics. Essentially, Art and I feel that a swift quick and clean death is something the hunter owes the game. You are able to do this with your chosen load and firearm.

Many folks are not able to duplicate this feat of arms. These folks are not into firearms and flat do not have the skills. Most of the members here do, but neither Art or I recommend small calibers when larger calibers are available.

One problem is defining "Deer". My neck of the woods, deer can range from 75 pounds to 175. Adequate for one is not adequate for the other.

Please check your email.

Giz
 
V-MAX: In a sense, you're making my point for me. You have developed a particular level of skill that is nowhere near universal. That is something that none of us old-timers and quasi-experts here can ever forget: We can't let newbies believe that there is little effort needed to achieve these skill levels.

I started out in the cedar brakes of the central Texas hills. After the Army, I ratted around in a good bit of Florida swamp. Now, I play on a couple of hundred thousand acres of desert. After 60 years of shooting and 50 years of reloading and deer-hunting, there is a lot of stuff that's easy for me. Heck, it's SUPPOSED to be easy for me, after that many years!

My first deer was a very patient doe who waited for me to blast the white spot with a .222, from maybe 25 yards. Today, I'd call that easy pistol distance.

Nowadays I walk and hunt. These mule deer will commonly dress out 150 and more. I have seen them take a solid hit from an '06, 100 yards, and look rather insulted. And when you jump one from his bedroom, he's in fifth-gear overdrive and full throttle. Pistols? .22s? Even a .243 is marginal, unless you can hit the neck of a running deer at 75 to 150 yards.

Sport hunting: My definition is really simple. If you have enough income to buy food from the store, the fact that you're a natural food freak and prefer deer and quail and such doesn't matter. You're a sport hunter , just by definition. Deer, javelina, quail, dove, mountain lion--best food there is! I love 'em! But I'm still a sport hunter; I don't have any dire physical need for food from the hunt, not when I've got cash and the Safeway is open.

So what makes homo sap superior to animals? The very concept of morals and ethics when dealing with animals. They don't have rights, but I have responsibilities. I owe it to Bambi that it be a clean kill. Just as I owe it to my cows that the pasture isn't over-grazed and any injuries are treated.

So that's sorta where I'm coming from in my comments in this Forum. I'll never let up on morals and ethics--but I never ask others to do more than I do. Seems fair to me.

Some folks have called me a Right-Wing Hippie, which ain't all that far off; others, a grumpy Libertarian. Well, I wouldn't call Jesse Helms a Communist, but he's purty danged liberal...

Enjoy that deer meat. I got a few recipes of my own.

:), Art
 
Talk about patient deer!

I had several clear-easy- shots on deer that I did not take, out of inexperience, before I dropped a hammer on my first deer.

From the hip. Yes, he was fairly close! Y'all seen the part in The Patriot where Mel eeeeases around the tree to ambush the Redcoats? Well- slow that down to about 1/15 speed, and that was me, bringing that double barrel up with the buck facing me.

(I asked my brother: Is he big enough?

What did you want, a moose? he replied. :D)

I'm no great shakes with a pistol, but today, I could put a slug from my Glock 23 right under his jaw at that range- but if I use a pistol to take any deer down in 'Bama this year, it'll be a .41.

Yeah, on a good day, I can be good. Single shot on 3" target at 30 yards good.

What if it's a bad day?

The game shouldn't have to suffer just because I shook, there was an ammo variation, or the earth moved. I'll take the extra power, weight, and penetration just in case.
 
Back when I was a kid, my uncle--disliking horses--worked his cattle with an old WW II Harley Davidson. ("The thing about the bike is, if you ain't working it, you ain't feeding it.") He carried a 1911 in a GI holster, on the handlebar.

He rode up toward a nonchalant little buck, one day, and proceeded to collect him with the .45. He cast his bullets of pure lead, and his comment was, "I guess that ol' bullet just sorta wrapped around him."

Of course, this was a fella who could spin clothes-pins on a line, with a Lilliput .25...

:), Art
 
A .45 ACP will work for deer, if you're careful about shot placement. 65 yards is further than I would take a shot, since field conditions are less ideal than what you'll find on a pistol range.

People have been taking deer for thousands of years with bows and arrows; if what amounts to a sharpened stick works, then a 230 grain JHP will certainly work, as long as it goes in the right place.
 
As many have said, I think that given the limitations of the cartridge (energy) and most individuals (accuracy), I would not recommend such an ambitious attempt- 45 acp at +- 65 yards. Shot placement is most important but does not, in my opinion, eliminate choosing an adequate caliber/energy combination.

I have taken whitetail with nearly every handgun in my collection from 9mm to 45 WM, and many in between- including 45 acp. The only handguns of mine without a deer to their credit are those I have not taken afield, and I have yet to lose an animal. In my state, the requirement is a meezly 350 lbs. of muzzle energy, .23 caliber or larger and I intend to harvest an animal with every variant that I legally and ethically can. One must be judicious in their ammunition selection in order to meet even this lenient requirement (I use only factory ammo, no handloads).

Obviously, I practice whenever I can and would not consider attempting a shot beyond my abilities or those of the firearm/cartridge. Needless to say, I have passed on many opportunities others may have attempted. I encourage others to practice shots similar to what they will encounter in the woods and to expect their group size in the field will usually double or triple what they enjoy at the range. So a 1" group would grow to 2" or 3"- I would consider that OK, but a 4" group would grow to 8" or 12" and would be unacceptable on deer sized game at ANY distance.

Suffice to say that this is all relative. My deer taken with a 45 acp was taken at 35 yards, trotting down a slope and fell with one shot- she weighed almost 120 lbs, dressed out, which is a decent size doe in my area. I believe that that distance would be about the extreme I would attempt on game with that pistol, although I can routinely place all my shots with my 45 (at the range) in a 6" group at 100 yrds, with iron sights. The animals I harvest are almost always relaxed, walking or standing, and completely unaware of my presence- which I am sure has a lot to do with my success.

Some of my tactics/anecdotes may sound foolish to some and tame to others, but I have developed a skill and comfort level within the legal limits and enjoy humanely harvesting game in the field that my family and I then enjoy on the table.

Once again, I agree with the other folks here that you owe it to the animals and yourself to harvest them in the most efficient, safe, humane, and legal manner possible. Whether you accomplish that with a bow, muzzle loader, handgun or large caliber rifle does not matter- just use what works for you. Good luck and happy hunting!

-Harvester
 
Atticus, Lion meat is really tender, lean, and "sorta" sweet. Just a hint of sweet. The particular lion we knoshed on was a bit young, so it was more of a comparison to veal than beef. :)

"Aw, Hell, it was just GOOD!"

Art
 
Howdy Harvester!

I intend to harvest an animal with every variant that I legally and ethically can.
Click to expand...

Is that why your use the username "Harvester"?

I agree with the other folks here that you owe it to the animals and yourself to harvest them in the most efficient, safe, humane, and legal manner possible.
Click to expand...

Absolutely right! Hunters must have ethical standards. If not, we risk giving the anti-hunting crowd ammo to revoke our age-old pasttime from our children.

But our standards shouldn't just stop with how we kill the animal. It sickens me how some hunters improperly dispose of deer parts. If a hunter can take the time to hunt, he should take the time to properly dispose of the remains of the deer. I think I will add a new thread for this subject.
 
Yep- you are correct, Sir! That is exactly what inspired my OnLine identity.

You are also right-on about holding every aspect of 'the hunt' to the same high standards. I strive to leave any location I frequent BETTER than how I found it. Not all, but a few areas I hunt I actually take it ALL with me when I leave- entrails, etc. The places I do leave those remains for consumption by the 'locals', I do so very judiciously.

I also am a big fan of supporting one of our charities, 'Hunter's for the Hungry', who accept venison donations to feed the homeless, etc. If you donate an entire animal you incur no charge for it's processing and they feed the hungry! I have all the fun, cull the heard, and someone else benefits from the excellent nutrition. I am not sure if ihave mentioned it before, but I am also an advocate of herd management- more specifically reducing the number of does.

I figure if I take out a mature doe, I have just eliminated her and her one or two fawns... (the offspring she would birth next year) much more efficiently managing the grossly overpopulated deer herd. Happy harvesting!

-Harvester
 
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