RIDE-RED 350r
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I see what you are saying 44 AMP and it makes sense. I was more concerned with pointing out what happens to standard bullets when subjected to the extreme pressures of 454 and 460 before hitting the target.
I have always wanted a 44 magnum to use as a woods gun. An acquaintance let me shoot his 44 mag revolver a while back and I don't remember the recoil being problematic. I don't remember the bullet weight but it was probably standard 240 gr rounds. I was looking at getting a Freedom Arms 83 in a 6" barrel, but I see many more 454 Casull's available. I suspect this is so because they recoil so much people don't want to shoot them after a while.
For folks who have Ruger or Smith products in .454 or .460, do you have the corrosion issues when shooting .45 Colt that Bob Baker mentions Freedom Arms having?
As I said, if you already have 45 components around but no 454 and no small rifle primers, then it might make sense to shoot it with 45 loads. There are certainly no drawbacks to doing so. Speaking from experience, I have lots of large rifle, large pistol and small pistol primers but ZERO small rifle. It would just be one more thing to have to stock up on and for what reason? I also have a bunch of 45's and piles of brass. Cases for the 454 would be one more thing I'd have to stock up on and for what reason? To repeat myself yet again, there are plenty of reasons to want to shoot only 45's in a 454 and no good reasons not to.If the OP is intending to load any .454 at all, he will have SRPs. Since primer cost is the same regardless of size, why would this have any effect on choice, especially when the OP is comparing .454 to .44? One should ask, does he have any .45 colt cases on hand? If he has to buy .45 colt cases just for reduced loads, again, why bother?
Interesting choice of words. Bob Baker is a good guy but the warning is more for liability's sake than anything, to save those with no common sense from themselves. Like I said before, it only becomes an issue when you shoot enough 45 Colt to produce a carbon ring and then load it up with 65,000psi 454 loads. In which case, the cartridges will have to be forced into the chamber.Wonder why Bob Baker advises against it then? Myself, I tend to listen more closely to experts on the subject than random internet posters. You most certainly are free to do differently.
If you were paying attention, the OP asked us about loading the 454 well under its maximum with a 300gr at 1100-1200fps given as an example. Your condescending comments about case life are irrelevant.If one actually reloads for the big boomers like .454 and .460, they quickly find out that cases don't last forever when used at the upper end. I restrict my .460 cases to 5 loads at legitimate .460 pressures and then delegate them to the "reduced load" can.
You're talking about a Smith and Wesson 460 and the OP is talking about a Freedom Arms 454. The latter actually makes a great 45 Colt but the former, not so much. In this case, "just get a 45 colt" is a much more costly route to take and completely unnecessary. The OP can accomplish exactly what he wants with the gun in question, without undue expenditures such as extra cylinders or taking the time to find a less common 45 Colt version.While I too can use .45 colt in my firearm, I have more than enough of these cases to load with reduced loads, that I don't need to have extra .45 colt brass on hand. I agre tho, that the .45 colt is an effective caliber. This is why I advise folks looking to buy a .454 or .460 and use it pretty much exclusively to shoot .45 colt, to just get a .45 colt.
First of all, there is no need for hostility or sarcasm. Secondly, I am trying to answer the OP's question with some degree of precision. I'm also throwing out options, not telling anyone what to do.An awful lot of what "works for you" and what "you want to do" and "what you may or may not wan to have on hand for reloading" in the above post...
Newsflash: What works for YOU and makes YOU happy might not accomplish the same for the next guy. Some people don't fret about needing another type of primer on hand at 4 bucks per 100....
My point was that the comments are irrelevant because the OP expressed no desire to run 454 at 65kpsi.Buck referenced the 460 because it and the 454 run almost the same pressure... His comments have merit whether you like it or not Jack.
I'm glad you're paying attention, you might learn something. The main issue is the length of the jump. A 454 is only slightly longer than the 45. The bullet transitions from the cartridge case to the chamber mouth before the base clears the case. There is no freebore, the bullet is always supported. Plus, I know from personal experience that Freedom Arms 454's shoot extremely well with 45's. I also know from highly experienced friends that the 460 does not do so well with 45's. A 460 chamber is very long and a 45 bullet has enough room to clear the case and freebore before it gets to the chamber mouth. How many FA 83s have you owned?You yourself preached in a past thread about how you can't count the ability of a 460 to shoot 45 Colt and 454 Casull as a plus for versatility due to the longer chambers not being very accurate with the shorter 45 Colt cartridges. And while I haven't even tried it with mine, I suspect you are probably right about that... But somehow 454 chambered pieces don't suffer this issue???? Which is it going to be Jack?
I don't have to read his mind, his words works quite well. It is done for the reasons I outlined and most anyone who knows much about these guns understands this.And now you can see into the mind of Bob Baker and inform us all of his true intent behind his recommendation against using 45 Colt in his 454 chambered revolvers??? Do what you want with your FA 454, but in my opinion it's bad form for anyone to advise another person to do the exact opposite of what the maker of the firearm recommends.
People who own and shoot FA's typically don't "fret" about the cost of primers. I don't know about you but I stock primers by the case and I shoot a lot. Maybe stocking another primer type means a couple of $4 packs but it's a different story for me. Like I said, it was a suggestion, a hypothetical, an available option. I see no reason to stock up on small rifle primers if only for one cartridge, for the reasons outlined, when I can just easily do exactly what I want to do with components already on hand. You guys are going to a lot of effort to comply with a liability warning that is a non issue. Most manufacturers also warn against handloads, are you going to so blindly heed that one?Newsflash: What works for YOU and makes YOU happy might not accomplish the same for the next guy. Some people don't fret about needing another type of primer on hand at 4 bucks per 100....
Trolling? Have you actually read the thread? The OP asked a question about whether his plan would work. I answered with a resounding YES. Not from internet wisdom. Not from Google. From actual experience in doing exactly what he wants to do. Has nothing to do with you or anyone else and I don't know why you feel the need to have a problem with it.You seem like a pretty smart and knowledgable guy Jack, and you can frame an argument well. But your involvement in this thread is just more of the same trolling nonsense I have locked horns with you in the past about.
I'm not a fanboy and you don't know what I like. I don't get bent out of shape or have emotional outbursts. I don't have pet guns or cartridges that I feel the need to vehemently defend. I judge based on merit and purpose.You like 45 Colt and what a hot 45 Colt can do from a piece that can handle the "Ruger spec" loads??
Everything has its purpose. The 454 is a fine cartridge and it has a purpose. Just so happens that its purpose does not fit my needs but make no mistake, I have been there and done precisely that. The 460 makes no sense from a practical standpoint but that's off topic for this discussion.You don't like 454 and 460??? Fine, no problem here, don't buy one. Just quit talking down to people who do, especially when you admitted in the past to having very limited experience with the 460 you claim to know so much about. And yes you do, don't even try to say you don't.
What are you talking about? You seem to have taken a comment completely out of context and decided to get your panties in a wad over it. Relax, I didn't spit on your dog.Just quit talking down to people who do...
In case you didn't notice, the OP is asking about a Freedom Arms 454. Which, as he said in the original post, is much more common than any other chambering.By the by, if I intended to only use 45 Colt and wanted them loaded warm, I would just get a solid 45 Colt chambered piece and call it a day.
Excellent post and I agree.Yes, .454 cases will avoid the dreaded carbon ring. (and while I don't have a .454 I do have .44s and .357s and have never had an issue with that, personally)
Originally posted by jackmoser65:
First of all, there is no need for hostility or sarcasm.
Originally posted by jackmoser65:
The fine folks here at TFL can take whatever advice they find the most credible, even if it is from a "random internet poster". Some of us "random internet posters" might actually know what we're talking about. How many FA 454's have you had? Those that don't know any better and can't think for themselves, should stick to what buck460 considers a proper "expert".
Originally posted by jackmoser65:
Have you actually read the thread? The OP asked a question about whether his plan would work.
With the load I proposed would the recoil be comparable in the 454 Casull versus the 44 magnum?
Is that a big difference? What is significantly more expensive in reloading the 454 Casull over the 44 magnum, the brass, bullets, primers, or all of it?
You started us down this road with your condescending "random internet poster" comment. Which seems to be your modus operandi. It was uncalled for and this kind of crap is why I participate on forums like this very infrequently.No hostility or sarcasm there, eh?
He may be but I'll let him make that decision. That said the 454 will offer a much broader range of capability than any 44 mag, should he decide to do so in the future. There are no affordable used FA 44's because they make very few of them. A 454, which he apparently already has a line on, is a much more affordable option. There are no downsides to this whatsoever so I really don't understand the argument at all.Subjective as they are, I still stand by my previous statements that the OP would probably be better served with a .44 mag, even if the model he is looking at is harder to find and costs a tad more on the used market.
Who said anything about doing that?Again anyone that thinks they are going to alternate .45 Colt and legitimate .454 loads in the same firearm and have them shoot to the same POA need to rethink.
I didn't want that at all. You're the one who seems to want to police all the responses.You seem to want to make this another pissing match about, who knows what.
You completely missed the point and decided to get testy because you thought I insulted your pet cartridge. That was a response to your condescending comments about case life for those who "actually reloads for the big boomers like .454 and .460".As for how irrelevant talking loading .460 is to .454, it is no more irrelevant than the .454/.45 Colt discussion.
Then maybe you should hold back the condescending crap. If you disagree with something, debate the statement with facts and informed opinion. Rather than making it personal by dismissing it as nonsense from a "random internet poster". In the end, that's what we all are, here anyway.You have much to contribute here Jack, it certainly would be more readily accepted by most if it was done in a more positive manor. This goes for all of us.