.45 vs .357 mag vs 10mm auto
- Thread starter dlb0412
- Start date
10mm pushes a hundred FPS or so more with 200 grain vs a 200 grain .357 mag, 10mm slightly larger diameter as well. And yes I know you said one shot only but I'll add that if this is any type of life taking/protecting incident outside of hunting I'd prefer a semi auto and traditionaly the .357 mag is found in a revolver. And no I don't need the peanut gallery I mean deagle fans to say I forgot about that pistol. 
Edit
Aw man who voted .45? Fess up now heh
Edit
Aw man who voted .45? Fess up now heh
Deaf Smith
New member
If shot in the knee, all about the same.
If shot in the hand, all about the same.
If shot in the chest right above the heart, all stop pretty much the same.
If shot in the head, just below the nose, all the same (and very messy.)
If shot in the gut... .357 might stop faster but light 10mms might do the same.
What is more, you didn't specify the loads. Some .45 185 gr loads are mighty good. Top 10mm loads in the 135-155 range are devastating.) And 125gr .357s are known to be near the pinnacle in stopping power. So what loads? Old 230 ball? 200gr 10mm? 158 grain round nose 'widow maker' .357/.38s? And what kind of slug? Remington 2/3 semi-jacketed HPs? DPX?
You also didn't specify the PLATFORM. Glock 20 or 29 (the shorter 29 not only looses velocity but is harder to shoot strait.) 4 inch or 2 1/2 .357s? 5 inch GI 1911 barrels or 3 inch mini-45 barrels?
All of this makes a difference in being able to make that shot and deliver the most power.
Deaf
IMHO, .357 Magnum has a slight edge over 10mm due to the common availability of SJHP bullets which do very nasty things to erect bipeds. Truthfully though, the ability to quickly and accurately place the shot is going to make a much larger difference than the caliber or bullet construction.
I would favor the 180 grain .357 magnum semi jacketed soft point with a six inch barrel to get every bit of velocity out of the load. This would be hard to beat.
In practice, either of the choices would be formidable if a high velocity load were used and if the shot were placed in a vital spot. Pick one and be satisfied.
Edit: I just saw your restriction to five inch barrel. Still, my answer is the same but with a 5" barrel instead of 6".
In practice, either of the choices would be formidable if a high velocity load were used and if the shot were placed in a vital spot. Pick one and be satisfied.
Edit: I just saw your restriction to five inch barrel. Still, my answer is the same but with a 5" barrel instead of 6".
I voted for the 10mm, and I do have handguns in all 3 calibers mentioned, and have had for 20 years.
With carefully selected ammunition all three are very close in stopping power. The 357 has always had a very good track record as a fight stopper. Nothing has ever changed that. The 10mm with Full Power Ammo will go as fast with larger diameter bullets. The 45 just makes very large, and reliable drain holes.
The 10mm has suffered the same speed reduction as the 38 Special over the years. The 38 Special ammo and reloading data has been turned down due to 100 year old guns in that chambering. The 10mm was turned down so it did not trash out steel frame semi autoes. From all I have read the Glock 20, and the S&W 610's will take full house ammo forever with no issues. The S&W semi auto's and the Delta Elites would not hold up to the pounding of full power ammo. Full House 10mm also generated more recoil than most Cops handled well back when the FBI and other departments adopted it as a fight stopper.
If I were rating the 3 with the best ammo available for each. I would rate them in this order:
10mm
357 Magnum
45acp
And again as I mentioned above, they are all 3 very close in stopping power. I carry all three calibers regulary. In 357 Magnum I have a 2" LCR 357, a 2-1/2" 66, as well as a 4" 686. In 10mm I have a 2-1/2" 310 Night Guard as well as a 4" 610. and in 45acp I have a 3" 625 as well as a 5" 1911 Colt.
I never feel under dressed with any of them.
Bob
With carefully selected ammunition all three are very close in stopping power. The 357 has always had a very good track record as a fight stopper. Nothing has ever changed that. The 10mm with Full Power Ammo will go as fast with larger diameter bullets. The 45 just makes very large, and reliable drain holes.
The 10mm has suffered the same speed reduction as the 38 Special over the years. The 38 Special ammo and reloading data has been turned down due to 100 year old guns in that chambering. The 10mm was turned down so it did not trash out steel frame semi autoes. From all I have read the Glock 20, and the S&W 610's will take full house ammo forever with no issues. The S&W semi auto's and the Delta Elites would not hold up to the pounding of full power ammo. Full House 10mm also generated more recoil than most Cops handled well back when the FBI and other departments adopted it as a fight stopper.
If I were rating the 3 with the best ammo available for each. I would rate them in this order:
10mm
357 Magnum
45acp
And again as I mentioned above, they are all 3 very close in stopping power. I carry all three calibers regulary. In 357 Magnum I have a 2" LCR 357, a 2-1/2" 66, as well as a 4" 686. In 10mm I have a 2-1/2" 310 Night Guard as well as a 4" 610. and in 45acp I have a 3" 625 as well as a 5" 1911 Colt.
I never feel under dressed with any of them.
Bob
I may be in the minority here but I think a 357 Magnum from some thing like a Coonan would out do a 10mm with the same barrel length. I know my Coonan Clocks about 100-150 FPS faster than my S&W 686 Hunter with a 6 inch barrel.
Loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo (I know I am going extreme here) I would not be surprised to see 1800-1850 FPS from the 5 inch barrel. I may be deluding my self here
I am not knocking the 10mm it certinally has a lot on the 357 magnum such as bullet weight and bore size but for shier raw speed and energy I would take the 357 from an auto-magnum.
This is more of a side note but the 357 magnum all so gains more from longer barrels such as a carbine or a rifle than a 10mm gains.
take every thing I have said with a grain of salt... I admit I am a 357 magnum fan boy as you can read in my signature and in the end shot placement it much more important that caliber. I would rather be shot in the leg with a 50BMG that at the base of the skull with a 22 short.
Loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo (I know I am going extreme here) I would not be surprised to see 1800-1850 FPS from the 5 inch barrel. I may be deluding my self here
I am not knocking the 10mm it certinally has a lot on the 357 magnum such as bullet weight and bore size but for shier raw speed and energy I would take the 357 from an auto-magnum.
This is more of a side note but the 357 magnum all so gains more from longer barrels such as a carbine or a rifle than a 10mm gains.
take every thing I have said with a grain of salt... I admit I am a 357 magnum fan boy as you can read in my signature and in the end shot placement it much more important that caliber. I would rather be shot in the leg with a 50BMG that at the base of the skull with a 22 short.
There is a big difference between 158gr and 125gr .357 magnum bullets. It's almost like a difference in caliber.
Winchester doesn't make it's Ranger "T" Series in 357 magnum or 10mm.
I think if Winchester did make the Ranger "T" in 125gr for .357 magnum it would probably perform about like the 357 Sig - penetrate to 12" and expand to .70 caliber.
I think if Winchester made the Ranger "T" in 10mm they could easily get a bullet that penetrates 16" and expands to .75 caliber.
I think the 10mm wins hands down, the bullet has a ton of energy behind it. I don't think the difference is necesarily going in - it would be going out. Where the .45 or the .357 magnum might lodge in the rear of the ribcage or against bone, the 10mm is not. The 10mm hollowpoint is going to break and bust through bones from front to back and leave a substantial exit wound. The 10mm is going to create a more effective wound channel than either the 357 or 45.
Winchester doesn't make it's Ranger "T" Series in 357 magnum or 10mm.
I think if Winchester did make the Ranger "T" in 125gr for .357 magnum it would probably perform about like the 357 Sig - penetrate to 12" and expand to .70 caliber.
I think if Winchester made the Ranger "T" in 10mm they could easily get a bullet that penetrates 16" and expands to .75 caliber.
I think the 10mm wins hands down, the bullet has a ton of energy behind it. I don't think the difference is necesarily going in - it would be going out. Where the .45 or the .357 magnum might lodge in the rear of the ribcage or against bone, the 10mm is not. The 10mm hollowpoint is going to break and bust through bones from front to back and leave a substantial exit wound. The 10mm is going to create a more effective wound channel than either the 357 or 45.
OldMarksman
Staff
Presuming that the OP is referring to shooting humans rather than alligators----since "exact" shot placement is an unreasonable goal in a self defense shooting, the question has very little value.
However, Deaf Smith has given a pretty good answer.
One should not confuse the fuss, blast, flash, and recoil at the shooter's end, or the disruption in a plastic jug of water or two, with the effectiveness of a handgun on a human target.
One should, however, understand that it is likely that a self defense encounter will require two or perhaps several very rapid shots with any handgun, and that one should choose on the basis of one's ability to effect such results.
Generally, and for civilians in particular since they have little need to penetrate auto bodies or plate glass, a lighter recoiling handgun is preferable for self defense, if a handgun is the only choice.
Almost everything I have researched regarding ballistics and the infamous "stopping power" discussion is that there's very little difference regardless of bullet weight. Take a look at the article and specifically the ballistics and gel tests for the more popular calibers.....note weight differences compared to penetration and cavity size.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#OVERPENETRATION
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#OVERPENETRATION
^ a difference in penetration of 2 inches seems to be insubstantial but in the Miami shootout, Jerry Dove's first shot on Platt was a cross shot that penetrated Platt's right upper arm, penetrate his chest and stopped 1 inch away from Platt's heart.
I'm not knocking the Silvertip or the 9mm. People have choices today of rounds in various calibers that only penetrate 6 inches, or 12 inches.
If the FBI had been issuing FMJ 9mm cartridges instead of the Silvertip - maybe the whole FBI 10mm / S&W .40 revolution of LEA sidearms never would have happened. Maybe Jerry Dove's first shot goes on to penetrate another six inches and Platt drops in his tracks - the confrontation is over, and two FBI agents who lost their lives don't die.
I could make the same argument for different JHP design for the 9mm cartridge - if Dove had been using a round that penetrated just one additional inch over and above what the Silvertip was designed to do - the same thing would have happened - Platt gets a hole in his heart and goes down instead of going on the kill FBI agents.
I'm not knocking the Silvertip or the 9mm. People have choices today of rounds in various calibers that only penetrate 6 inches, or 12 inches.
If the FBI had been issuing FMJ 9mm cartridges instead of the Silvertip - maybe the whole FBI 10mm / S&W .40 revolution of LEA sidearms never would have happened. Maybe Jerry Dove's first shot goes on to penetrate another six inches and Platt drops in his tracks - the confrontation is over, and two FBI agents who lost their lives don't die.
I could make the same argument for different JHP design for the 9mm cartridge - if Dove had been using a round that penetrated just one additional inch over and above what the Silvertip was designed to do - the same thing would have happened - Platt gets a hole in his heart and goes down instead of going on the kill FBI agents.