OkieCruffler
New member
I've no doubt my frame can handle 45 super, and beyond all day long. Its the 460 that I believe will cause issues. It runs backthrust very similar to the 444 which can stretch frames, I know from experience.
45 super?
- Thread starter OkieCruffler
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Doesn't the .460 Rowland use a longer case than .45 ACP?Sevens said:
Yeah -- from the official .460 Rowland web site:
http://460rowland.com/about/
Since the OP has already order a .45 ACP barrel, the .460 Rowland won't work.
Well, read my post again--
I am merely suggesting that he venture toward Rowland load data in .45 ACP cartridge cases. The COAL and internal combustion rounds of the .45 ACP and .460 Rowland are in exactly the same ballpark. Rowland has longer brass to prevent folks from loading them in to Grandpa's war bringback.
In a setup such as the Contender where the entire breech end is sealed and there is no feed ramp or lack of chamber support, the .45 Super could be a way-station on the adventure to Rowland. (however, after reading about the roots of the .45 Super, it doesn't seem as if the Rowland ventures all that much further.)
I am merely suggesting that he venture toward Rowland load data in .45 ACP cartridge cases. The COAL and internal combustion rounds of the .45 ACP and .460 Rowland are in exactly the same ballpark. Rowland has longer brass to prevent folks from loading them in to Grandpa's war bringback.
In a setup such as the Contender where the entire breech end is sealed and there is no feed ramp or lack of chamber support, the .45 Super could be a way-station on the adventure to Rowland. (however, after reading about the roots of the .45 Super, it doesn't seem as if the Rowland ventures all that much further.)
OkieCruffler
New member
The 460 brass would not work (although a quick call to the maker would fix that), but the 460 loads could work in super brass. And now I'm thinking if one was careful the 460 loads would be fine. Not much different than the 45 win mag. I've run loads that shouldn't be used in the Contender, most notably the 356 win, and if you don't go crazy you can get by with them.
Ace Sr. made my super on a Colt Officer's lightweight. With Pachmayr rubberized grip safety, grips, and ms housing recoil isn't bad. Certainly nicer to shoot than a magnum revolver "mountain gun". I'd way rather have my super to empty into a charging bear or boar than a da 4" 44 magnum revolver.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Okay, I read BOTH of your earlier posts again, and nowhere in either did you even hint that your reference to .460 Rowland was intended to suggest loading .45 Super to .460 Rowland levels. That may have been your intent, but you didn't say that in either of your previous posts.Sevens said:
I think we now have that squared away.
Then there's the question of what brass would be best. According to Starline's web site, they offer different brass for .45 ACP, .45 ACP +P, and .45 Super. Taking a quick read of the descriptions, it almost seems that the .45 ACP +P might be as strong as or stronger than the .45 Super.
And, of course, you could buy .45 Winchester Magnum brass and cut it down to .45 ACP length.
trimmed.45 Win. Mag brass
AGUILA.... That's the FIRST thing I did when messing with the SUPER mods. It's good for only the 185gr pills. Anything heavier causes a bulge at the base of the bullet--- the case wall is too thick that far down from the mouth. Had to get a reamer from FORSTER for inside-reaming....Too damn much trouble.....Scrapped that thought and went with FED +P and TZZ at that time until new brass from STARLINE was obtained.
WILL
AGUILA.... That's the FIRST thing I did when messing with the SUPER mods. It's good for only the 185gr pills. Anything heavier causes a bulge at the base of the bullet--- the case wall is too thick that far down from the mouth. Had to get a reamer from FORSTER for inside-reaming....Too damn much trouble.....Scrapped that thought and went with FED +P and TZZ at that time until new brass from STARLINE was obtained.
WILL
Pressure
Pressures in the 460 are already high....shortening the powder chamber, even a bit, will necessarily raise pressure. Any work done on this?
I wonder how much of a difference in pressure that 1/16th of an inch makes when using .45 ACP or .45 Super brass as opposed to the 460 Rowland brass.
Pressures in the 460 are already high....shortening the powder chamber, even a bit, will necessarily raise pressure. Any work done on this?
OkieCruffler
New member
Actually the powder area is about the same. The OAL of the Rowland is Identical to the 45acp they just seat the bullet deeper. That way you can still use your 1911 mags for the Rowland but you can't get a Rowland to chamber into a 45acp chamber. So no real change in pressure. Web thickness is the same on the super brass and the Rowland. It's turning into a much more interesting project than I had envisioned.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
And Johnny Rowland specifically uses longer brass so that cartridges loaded to the pressures of the .460 Rowland can't chamber in a standard 1911 (or other .45 ACP firearm). All the "work" has already been done by Johnny. Trying to replicate .460 Rowland pressures in any flavor of .45 ACP cases would just be reproducing his work in reverse.
Battering is a two-way street. Heavy recoil springs beat-up the extractor, the lower barrel lugs, and the slide stop. The fast-moving slide is also likely to not feed rounds as reliably. It can also lead to bullet set-back, which you want to do a lot less with a round running 50% higher pressures than .45ACP.
Upping the rating of the mainspring a few pounds will do a lot more good, in conjunction with a modest increase in the recoil spring rating, than going with an extremely stiff recoil spring.
Exactly...!
Which is pretty much what I figure the OP is hoping to do or thinking of doing with his new Contender barrel. Working -way- beyond .45 ACP performance and pressure in a rig that is absolutely capable of going far beyond those limits.
My suggestion was simply that additional published, tested and researched load data exists for the .460 Rowland, which is beyond .45 Super and uses the same internal combustion space that the .45 ACP, .45 ACP+P and .45 Super all use already.
Agreed, run of the mill .45 Auto cases and case heads are not built to the same spec as .45 ACP+P, .45 Super or .460 Rowland, but my question is: in the Contender, is this a deal-breaker?
Also, to your suggestion of using .45 Win Mag...
That brass is arguably harder to obtain than .460 Rowland brass. but in either case, it's not like he has the same problem that .460 Rowland guys have (brass getting chucked in to the stratosphere and lost) so if he simply buys the brass, he can run it for a good, long time.
The other option is to cut down and ream-out .308 rifle brass. A buddy of mine did it for the simple exercise of it. The brass is far beyond what we would recognize as "sturdy" but would carry with it the increased risk of high pressure simply due to the shrunken internal space/volume which will otherwise raise pressures if the powder charge remains the same.
I think we can all admit that this would simply be an exercise for fun or for something interesting to do. A .44 Mag or a .45 Colt barrel is not at all hard to find and if the end goal were simply a certain bullet diameter/weight/velocity, there are shorter routes to that end goal.
But the OP says clearly:
I can relate. Most of what I do in handguns and handloading is simply because I want to and I hope to find it fun or interesting.
OkieCruffler
New member
You can get 45 win mag and 460 brass direct from Starline and it's usually in stock (unlike their 360 DW brass 
). But yes, 99.9% of the time this rig will be used for unsupported plinking at 50 yrds with mid level 45acp loads. If I were buying a barrel for just hunting I would look more toward the 445 or 357 max. Actually for the hunting I do the 357 mag loaded to Contender capabilities would work fine. But my life is filled with questions of "What if?". That's how you end up loading 32-20 with 180gr bullets, or 30 luger with 125's. It's also how you spend a stupid amount of money on useless projects. (Don't even ask about my .28/357 mag dies) I blame my father for making me help him make 475 Wildey brass.
). But yes, 99.9% of the time this rig will be used for unsupported plinking at 50 yrds with mid level 45acp loads. If I were buying a barrel for just hunting I would look more toward the 445 or 357 max. Actually for the hunting I do the 357 mag loaded to Contender capabilities would work fine. But my life is filled with questions of "What if?". That's how you end up loading 32-20 with 180gr bullets, or 30 luger with 125's. It's also how you spend a stupid amount of money on useless projects. (Don't even ask about my .28/357 mag dies) I blame my father for making me help him make 475 Wildey brass.I was thinking about a 7" longslide chambered for the .45 Super...
or the .460 Rowland! This would make for a superb hunting handgun! It would be effective against Black Bear as well as harvesting the larger of the deer species. (What big rodents we shoot!)
Three magazines full of hot ammunition would certainly make the sport easier in the woods.
Scott
or the .460 Rowland! This would make for a superb hunting handgun! It would be effective against Black Bear as well as harvesting the larger of the deer species. (What big rodents we shoot!)
Three magazines full of hot ammunition would certainly make the sport easier in the woods.
Scott