45 super in a glock 30s?

G

Garanddaddy

Inactive
I have recently purchased a glock 30s and was thinking to use it as my EDC. I was contemplating the idea of using 45 super as a carry load. For those of you that don't know, a 45 super is externally like a 45 ACP but loaded to higher pressures with some case differences as well. Searching around the internet I have read of people shooting 45 super in stock glock 36 and springfield xds but this seems a little risky. If I were to shoot 45 super out of a glock 30s I would change the barrel to be fully supported, change out the recoil springs to 23lbs (the heaviest I could find), and put wolff 10% mag springs in. Do you guys think this set up could be functional and safe? I would not shoot no more than 50 rounds through this set up to prove it works but is a good idea? I know people can easily shoot 45 super through a modified glock 30 but the 30s has the top slide of a 36 basically so the barrel is a bit smaller and the slide has less mass. I am aware this is borderline impractical and it will generate massive recoil but I just want to humor the idea.

Thanks in advance for your input.
 
I don't think it is a good idea at all.

Stiff springs don't do anything but prevent frame battering at full recoil. The don't slow down slide velocity, they increase battering going into battery and increase felt recoil.

The .45 Glocks have lighter slides than their 10mm brothers. Those guns are designed for the near magnum 10mm cartridge and have enough slide mass to counter that acceleration.

If this is a carry gun, I can't think of anything worse than putting an aftermarket barrel in and changing all of the feed dynamics with different springs and a stout cartridge. You're kissing away all the advantages of a proven reliable design for a cartridge it wasn't built for. You're also asking for the chamber to unlock early and have a kaBoom - something added case support only helps to a small extent. It really doesn't matter if you can get it to work at the range - presumably you're carrying this thing to preserve your life, not as a running science project.

If .45 ACP isn't enough for EDC, buy a G29 or a .44 Magnum revolver.
 
Thanks for the response.

I think I'll take your advice and not mess around with trying to shoot the 45 super. Also you bring up a great point with not messing with feeding dynamics of the gun and keep it the way glock designed it. Thanks again for helping me avoid a possible unintended hand grenade.
 
Most .45 Super you get isn't loaded terribly hot, hotter than a .45 ACP yes but not very hot and I think Underwood and DoubleTap say it's safe in Glock barrels. You will get an increase in recoil and I wouldn't want to shoot much out of it in a stock setup, heck I have a Gen4 30 that I wouldn't really want to shoot much Super out of so the lighter 30S might buck a little with Super ammo. I'd personally just use regular .45 ACP ammo in it, it's plenty effective.

I do love the cartridge, but I leave it for my KKM barreled Glock 21 with custom 8 port compensator so I can shoot 250gr JHP bullets to 1300 fps.
 
45 super is loaded past +p pressures (some call it +p+) and as mentioned before in more than one way it is not a good idea.

The only non 45 Super I know of in a Semi-auto capable of shooting 45 Super safely for any length of time is the Ruger P90. Even then I would not recommend wearing out a P90 shooting them. Tough as they are, they will wear.

Not saying there are not others that can't, just I am not aware of them if they are out there.
 
Generally any question that starts "I know this gun is chambered in x but what about shooting y, which is like x on steroids" is a bad idea.

Best case scenario- It works for a while

Probable scenario- you lose your gun (and your warranty)

Worst case scenario- you lose your hand
 
I just talked KKM on this very topic today

I have a 30S and have been wanting to do the same. Bottom line, ain't gonna happen. As per Sy (Psi? Psi? Sigh?) at KKM Precion (Barrels), the issue with the 30S isn't the lack of full support (as shown in the photo on the left), but the very thin barrel/chamber at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions. I wanted to pop off just enough rounds to know the round would chamber reliably, and use this for CCW, not target, but after speaking with Sy, he said he wouldn't chance it.
FYI, On the right is my Para Ordnance P12. Might try shooting a few through that once I find a decent spring and guide rod. Current guide rod is a little shorty.
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PCP--your barrel on the left simply looks like it is made to tight chamber tolerances, common with after-market barrels and easily fixed with a chamber polish.

One thing not mentioned here is that the super, as far as I know cannot be loaded into conventional 45 cases. I went down this path before settling on the 10mm--but like many people feel there just has to be a way to get deer-dropping performance out of a 45 acp.

As I write this I'm holding in my hand some Liberty civil defense +p 78 gr hp which claims 1900 fps velocity and 625 ftlbs .
 
You are correct

You are correct. One should not load +P or Super loads into the ACP casing. The 45ACP isn't designed for it. The original 45ACP was only designed to handle about 20,000-21,000 of CUP. +P is about 10% higher (23,000 CUP) and the 45 Super is 28,000 CUP. Here is some relative ballistics (courtesy of wikipedia)

Ballistic performance of 45 ACP (Source, Wikipedia)
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
185 gr (12 g) Byonded Defense 1,225 ft/s (373 m/s) 616 ft·lbf (835 J)
185 gr (12 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP 1,050 ft/s (320 m/s) 453 ft·lbf (614 J)
200 gr (13 g) Speer Gold Dot JHP +P 1,080 ft/s (330 m/s) 518 ft·lbf (702 J)
230 gr (15 g) Federal Hydra-Shok 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 414 ft·lbf (561 J)
230 gr (15 g) US Army Ball FMJ 830 ft/s (250 m/s) 352 ft·lbf (477 J)


Ballistic performance for 45 Super (Source, Wikipedia)
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
185 gr (12 g) JHP 1,300 ft/s (400 m/s) 694 ft·lbf (941 J)
200 gr (13 g) JHP 1,200 ft/s (370 m/s) 639 ft·lbf (866 J)
230 gr (15 g) FMJ 1,100 ft/s (340 m/s) 618 ft·lbf (838 J)


The external dimensions of both ACP and Super cartridges are identical (so one one must ensure not shooting a Super in an ACP). The difference is that the walls of the Super case are thicker, to allow for higher pressures.

I'm not sure what you mean by "tight chamber tolerance". Do you mean round to chamber clearance? The pistol functions flawlessly, so no need to modify. The Glock 30S (vs 30) has a thinner slide, and hence the barrel chamber is thinner externally, therefore the chamber walls are thinner at 3'oclock and 9o'clock on the 30S vs 30. The fact that is is so thin on the sides makes it that even a fully-supported after-market chambered barrel like KKM won't work for a 30S in Super (nor do they recommend). I do like the lighter weight of the 30S over a 30 so I currently don't regret getting the 30S. That in itself is another issue, lighter slides get bashed around more than heavier slides.

I did call Glock last week (Don't know to whom I spoke, but someone else might want to do the same to confirm) and they did say the Glock 30S was +P rated. I was kind of surprised to hear that.

This is going to be a CCW piece. I will shoot primarly ACP at the range, and a few magazines of +P to prove feeding reliablity. After that, strictly ACP at the range, and +P for CCW.

Now, if you want CRAZY Power, the 460 Rowland.
If you have a full size 1911, you might be able to get a new barrel, spring, Compensator, etc. and convert it to 460 Rowland. This round is at 40,000 CUP, and approaches 1000 ft-lbs in a 1911 frame. The 460 Rowland has a case about 1/16" longer to prevent it from loading into a standard 45 ACP Barrel. The bullets are seated 1/16th deeper into the case, so that the OAL is the same as a 45 ACP and can be used in standard 1911 magazines. The beauty of this is it won't chamber into a 45 ACP, but CAN use the 45 ACP magazines. The 460 will bang the snot out most pistols if not properly modified, and not all brands of 1911 can handle it (AMT, etc.) as the slides are not fully heat treated. When properly set-up, a 1911 / .460 Rowland Conversion will shoot .45 ACP, +P, Super and .460 Rowland cartridges accurately and reliably without ever having to revert to the factory barrel. Even though 45ACP rounds ntypically headspace on the mouth, seems in the Rowland conversions the extractor keeps the ACP, +P, Super rounds from going too far into the chamber (per Rowland). I found this quite interesting, and not what I expected.

I have a Springfield that I wouldn't mind converting to 460 Rowland (But I got to ask myself, for what woud I use this gun? Novelty only?). I have a 629 if I want to go hunting, but there is the allure of shooting a very powerful 1911.


Ballistic performance for 460 Rowland (Source, Wikipedia)
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
80 gr (5 g) 3,050 ft/s (930 m/s) 1,680 ft·lbf (2,280 J)
185 gr (12 g) JHP 1,560 ft/s (480 m/s) 1,000 ft·lbf (1,400 J)
230 gr (15 g) JHP 1,340 ft/s (410 m/s) 930 ft·lbf (1,260 J)
230 gr (15 g) FMJ 1,340 ft/s (410 m/s) 930 ft·lbf (1,260 J)
300 gr (19 g) (Revolver Only) 1,350 ft/s (410 m/s) 1,230 ft·lbf (1,670 J)


I am very busy with my PCP Airgun business, but if I do get time in the next few months, I am going to purchase 100 rounds of +P, purchase and reload some Super brass, and shoot in the various 45 that I have (after necessary modifications). In 3.5" I have a 30S, P12, and Officer's Model, P13 in 4" and a pair of full size that I will use as test beds. Like I said, I'm really busy, and I just hope this isn't a pipe dream and I really get the time to do the comparison. If/when I do, I will post results.

While I strive to only offer posts that are beneficial, accurate, etc., Be like the Bereans and check all your sources of information for accuracy, including mine. Just because you saw it on the internet, doesn't make it true.
 
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I have a springfield XD and also contemplated the 460 rowland (which BTW can theoretically fire the 45 super I believe). In the end I like my XD too much the way it is and decided against the conversion, don't want to batter it.
 
The one nice this about conversions

The one nice thing about 1911 conversions is that they are easily reversible back to stock. I hope for you the XD might be the same. Here in the people's socialist republic of California, we must have the compensator pinned to the barrel. This isn't an issue if one owns a 1911, as to remove and replace, the barrel pulls foward out of the slide (the compensator being mounted permanently isn't an issue). But if a Kalifornian owns a Glock 21 or similar (where the barrel drops down and out toward the rear of the slide) they will need to remove the permanently mounted compensator (NOT possible to swap at a range, etc.).

The Rowland has a certain COOL factor, and it isn't a very expensive modification. I just don't know if I can justify owning it (but then again, can one justify a +$4K Airgun?) p.s. that's not bragging, that is what someone paid for one of these (each) and another. I didn't want to sell them, but he made me an offer I couldn't refuse. :-)


Rapids900x.jpg
 
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Do people really run around shooting airguns on PCP? :eek::D

Those look cool. And I hear they are capable of some pretty amazing ballistics.
 
I wouldn't recommend it. I have fired +P out of my G30 and the results were, uh... not good.

Plus Glock has a problem with you firing anything but regular ammo through "their" pistol... lol
 
Agree

Dave, I will strongly consider your input, also Glock did say 30S can handle +P. I was suprised at that myself. Wonder if he thought I meant the 30?


Stag, PCP Airguns are a LOT of fun, I quit my job a couple of years ago as an Engineer/Physicist in Aerospace, and now have a business that I love to work at on Monday mornings. Each day, is another day to make friends on the phone. I should pay to HAVE this job. I don't know if it is a topic that can be addressed on this forum, so I will keep it to a minimum in this post. I will say that each year I go out to an Arizona dairy farm to slaughter dove. The dove and pidgeons are pests that not only eat all the feed, but defecate in it as well (not healthy). I probably shot close to a hundred in half a day. My friend goes a number of days a week. He shoots a bazillion dove with his PCP airgun, and doesn't put a dent in the population. The shooting never stops. . These airguns are CRAZY accurate. This is an older Theoben Rapid in .22 I take as my hunter. It was easily nailing collared dove at 93 yards (lasered). It can go farther, but I need more trigger time to know how much drop for the different ranges as I rarely get to have fun. 2 kids in Cub Scouts, work 106 hours, you know/remember the routine. If you have an interest, I could point you to some sources of information. It is a blast, and the nice this is you can shoot QUIETLY in your backyard. Contact me if you would like more information on the hobby, but be warned. It is addictive. It's not called PCP for no reason. Actually it's short for "Pre-Charged-Pneumatic", but still funny to us.

JoeInAZwRapid400x600.jpg




While I strive to only offer posts that are beneficial, accurate, etc., Be like the Bereans and check all your sources of information for accuracy, including mine. Just because you saw it on the internet, doesn't make it true.
 
@Dave--you don't need to go into details that violate 5th amendment rights--but what general areas did the 30 fail to handle the +p loads--or in a generic sense is it simply not able to handle the pressure--or is the stock set-up (recoil spring, chamber support etc) not adequate without modification? Genuinely interested, not trying to be a net troll.

Thanks PCP--you have nailed my fear exactly on the head--I'm already way over-extended with what I have--not to mention ladder addictions to archery as well.;) The day one of them babies drops a deer though...
 
@PCP-AirGunTanks; I did misread that, my mistake. :( I have a plain 30

@stagpanther; the slide stop was dinged up, guide rails mangled, and the guide rod warped. I'm going to guess that a stiffer (22lbs?) recoil spring will be required to handle the higher pressures. I am not a gunsmith though, so I would ask a pro ;)
 
I pumped up my glock 20 to handle full-power loads--I think the stock set-up would have flown south pretty quick. Interestingly, my experience was that heaviest recoil spring doesn't necessarily make the gun handle recoil better. I have no experience with glock's 45--but from what I've heard the XD should handle +p's no problem.
 
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