hankrearden98
New member
Why not Flatnose Ball simmilar to what Hornady used to load?
www.thefireingline.com/NonCGI/forum1/html/001996.html
www.thefireingline.com/NonCGI/forum1/html/001996.html
45 self-defence ammo
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hankrearden98
New member
Why not Flatnose Ball simmilar to what Hornady used to load?
www.thefireingline.com/NonCGI/forum1/html/001996.html See my October 30, 1999 5:53 PM post.
www.thefireingline.com/NonCGI/forum1/html/001996.html See my October 30, 1999 5:53 PM post.
hankrearden98
New member
Well, that didn't work! Here it is.
One of the great things about working in a prison is that you get to talk to alot of people who have been shot.
Yesterday, I observed what appeared to be old bullet wounds on an inmate who is slightly over 6 ft. tall, around 230 lbs., and physically fit. Several years ago during a drug deal gone bad, he was shot five times with .45 ACP Ball ammo at about five yards. One shot fully penetrated his left hand; one his left bicep; one his left lung; one clipped his aorta; and one entered his right side damaging his upper intestine, his liver, and destroying one kidney. He said that it felt as if he had been cut open and a hot poker inserted into each wound.
Stopping power of the mighty .45? He said that he made it to his car and drove himself to a hospital about ten minutes away, exited the car and collapsed at the emergency room entrance. This occurred while he was operating with one lung and loosing most of his blood into his body cavity.
Overpenetration? Of the five ball rounds, the the only two that exited were the hand shot and the bicep shot. The effective shots all stayed in the body and penetrated just deeply enough to be effective.
Would a 185 gr. JHP that actually expanded have penetrated deeply enough to be effective? Would any weight JHP that had actually expanded? Would any bullet lighter than 230 gr.?
It appears that in this case, Hardball was as effective a load as could have been used. Years ago, Hornady loaded .45 ACP Flatnose Ball ammo. This is a slightly more efficient design than round ball and is much less likely to ricochet. I would sure like to see some manufacturer make it available again.
One of the great things about working in a prison is that you get to talk to alot of people who have been shot.
Yesterday, I observed what appeared to be old bullet wounds on an inmate who is slightly over 6 ft. tall, around 230 lbs., and physically fit. Several years ago during a drug deal gone bad, he was shot five times with .45 ACP Ball ammo at about five yards. One shot fully penetrated his left hand; one his left bicep; one his left lung; one clipped his aorta; and one entered his right side damaging his upper intestine, his liver, and destroying one kidney. He said that it felt as if he had been cut open and a hot poker inserted into each wound.
Stopping power of the mighty .45? He said that he made it to his car and drove himself to a hospital about ten minutes away, exited the car and collapsed at the emergency room entrance. This occurred while he was operating with one lung and loosing most of his blood into his body cavity.
Overpenetration? Of the five ball rounds, the the only two that exited were the hand shot and the bicep shot. The effective shots all stayed in the body and penetrated just deeply enough to be effective.
Would a 185 gr. JHP that actually expanded have penetrated deeply enough to be effective? Would any weight JHP that had actually expanded? Would any bullet lighter than 230 gr.?
It appears that in this case, Hardball was as effective a load as could have been used. Years ago, Hornady loaded .45 ACP Flatnose Ball ammo. This is a slightly more efficient design than round ball and is much less likely to ricochet. I would sure like to see some manufacturer make it available again.
protoolman
Moderator
CCI's 185 or 200 gr. flying ashtray (wide mouth hollowpoint) has always been a favorite for off duty cops. The hollowpoint is huge. It doesn't feed in everthing so try it in your gun.
On a side note, I noticed in my most recent Gun Tests that the authors have one strong bias despite their otherwise balanced and objective magazine: They repeatedly state, in so many words, that the 9mm cannot begin to hang in the same category of stopping power with the 45 acp. Of course, numerous threads here have pretty well arrived at the consensus that the difference is quite negligible. And further, no peer-tested evidence has ever been produced proving this allegation. Just a small beef with Gun Tests - 45 is good, but it certainly not the end-all, and cannot be said to outclass 9mm by any significant amount, in the grand scheme of things.
Futo, I disagree. The database has a number of instances where someone was shot repeatedly with 38/9mm size stuff and kept going. Chicago had one biker take 33 9mm hits before dropping. That was hits, not shots. James Day, violent felon and bank robber, shot it out with B-more cops and took 11 hits. 6 months later,he was making my day hard at the Md House of Correction w/o appearing impaired in any way, except perhaps morally.
Hank Reardon's testimony about a felon hit with a 45 is about the first one I've run across. Did know one drug dealer that took a close to contact range 12 ga hit in the abdomen, but he wasn't able to do much afterwards.
Hank Reardon's testimony about a felon hit with a 45 is about the first one I've run across. Did know one drug dealer that took a close to contact range 12 ga hit in the abdomen, but he wasn't able to do much afterwards.
Arnistador
New member
It appears that many people will not change their opinions regarding ammo. My overall take is that there are many high quality defensive ammunition choices out there. Among the best are:
ProLoad 230gr (or 200gr is good too)
CCI/Speer 230gr
Winchester SXT/Talons
Federal Hydrashok
As far as feeding characteristics of the flying ashtray, Speer has recently changed the profile of the Gold Dots to aid in proper feeding, and it has worked well in my Springfield 1911 (my USP digests pretty much anything I feed it.) Try it out.
Ultimately, I think those who are truly interested in the best ammo should give ProLoad a try. The price is right, and if you don't like it, John gives you your money back. What could be better?
Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional Equipment
ProLoad 230gr (or 200gr is good too)
CCI/Speer 230gr
Winchester SXT/Talons
Federal Hydrashok
As far as feeding characteristics of the flying ashtray, Speer has recently changed the profile of the Gold Dots to aid in proper feeding, and it has worked well in my Springfield 1911 (my USP digests pretty much anything I feed it.) Try it out.
Ultimately, I think those who are truly interested in the best ammo should give ProLoad a try. The price is right, and if you don't like it, John gives you your money back. What could be better?
Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional Equipment
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