45 self-defence ammo
- Thread starter zentao
- Start date
- Status
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Greetings, sir. I have no personal experience with ProLoad, so I cannot accurately comment on it. In your aluminum-framed SIG-Sauer P220, I think I'd opt for either the Federal 230 gr HydraShok or the Remington Golden Saber in the same weight bullet. I'd make my choice based on what fed 100% (probably both will) and which grouped the very best. Both have high "stats" with regard to stopping power and both should hit close to point of aim as those pistols' sights are generally set for the 230 gr weight bullet. Since velocities and bullet weights are the same, cheaper ball loads or handloads would likely hit at or near the same poa, which is a plus with a fixed sight pistol. Out of my 5" Kimber, the Remington Golden Saber averaged 847 ft/sec while the HydraShok did 872 ft/sec. Best.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
In .45 I use 230gr HydraShoks exclusively.
Then all I have to worry about is where to put them...
------------------
Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
Then all I have to worry about is where to put them...
------------------
Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
zentao,
I really like Proload ammunition, and in .45 I prefer the 230 gr. loadings, but unfortunately Proload only makes a .45 +P 230 gr, and I am not a fan of +P .45... So I usually go with either Hydrashock or SXT. Goldensabre is good, but for some reason, when I tried it out in my USP, the muzzle flash was a lot more than either the Hydrashock or SXT's... You should try out several brands to see how muzzle flash is for your Sig 220, and to also make sure feeding is reliable and which one is more accurate in your gun...
I really like Proload ammunition, and in .45 I prefer the 230 gr. loadings, but unfortunately Proload only makes a .45 +P 230 gr, and I am not a fan of +P .45... So I usually go with either Hydrashock or SXT. Goldensabre is good, but for some reason, when I tried it out in my USP, the muzzle flash was a lot more than either the Hydrashock or SXT's... You should try out several brands to see how muzzle flash is for your Sig 220, and to also make sure feeding is reliable and which one is more accurate in your gun...
Rocky Road
Retired Screen Name
ZenTao--
One can seldom go wrong in simply endorsing Senior Member Steve Camp's writings. I will expand slightly, though.
The 230 weight, always. There is little use in going for the .45 and not grabbing the benefits of greater mass/momentum along with the greater surface area.
I find little to choose from between the Federal Hydra Shok, Win. Ranger SXT, Rem Golden Sabre and Gold Dot. All have the nice, wide, hollow point which, even is there is zero expansion, amounts to a sharp-edged flat meplat. Remember this: the .45 doesn't NEED to expand. As it exits the barrel, it is already what the niner mike-mike seeks to attain.
Veering slightly away from your question, I must stress that what is BEST for you is what WORKS for you. Spend a bit of money in practice with THAT particular load and magazine and pistol combination. Mindset can be everything when the chips are down. The last couple of heartbeats
before the noise starts is no time to be thinking, "If only I was carrying Brand X tonight. . . "
Best regards--
RR
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
One can seldom go wrong in simply endorsing Senior Member Steve Camp's writings. I will expand slightly, though.
The 230 weight, always. There is little use in going for the .45 and not grabbing the benefits of greater mass/momentum along with the greater surface area.
I find little to choose from between the Federal Hydra Shok, Win. Ranger SXT, Rem Golden Sabre and Gold Dot. All have the nice, wide, hollow point which, even is there is zero expansion, amounts to a sharp-edged flat meplat. Remember this: the .45 doesn't NEED to expand. As it exits the barrel, it is already what the niner mike-mike seeks to attain.
Veering slightly away from your question, I must stress that what is BEST for you is what WORKS for you. Spend a bit of money in practice with THAT particular load and magazine and pistol combination. Mindset can be everything when the chips are down. The last couple of heartbeats
before the noise starts is no time to be thinking, "If only I was carrying Brand X tonight. . . "
Best regards--
RR
------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
Arnistador
New member
While Winchester and Hydrashok have been the traditional choice, I also recommend ProLoad for the very best defensive ammunition. In the 230gr. +P load, I do not notice any appreciable increase in recoil or flash. Also, the bonded Speer Gold Dot bullet maintains almost all its mass in expansion tests through heavy clothing (average 228gr final weight, if I remember correctly), with a minimum of 16" penetration expanding to nearly .80".
I highly recommend AGAINST the Remington Golden Sabre for two reasons. First, the jacket has been known to separate in this bullet. Second, look at the pattern of the cuts at the tip of the bullet. It is designed to flare open when fired from a gun with a right hand twist. What do we know about 1911s? That's right; they shoot LH twist.
While there are other decent choices out there, I stand by ProLoad. Besides, at about $10 a box INCLUDING shipping, and a no bullsh*t money back guarantee, how can anyone afford NOT to try it?
Give John (CEO of ProLoad) a call and try it out yourself. If you don't like it, you can come back on this forum and call me a liar.
Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional EQuipment
PS. I don't work for ProLoad, I am not related to John, and I don't distribute their ammo. I just carry it in my gun.
I highly recommend AGAINST the Remington Golden Sabre for two reasons. First, the jacket has been known to separate in this bullet. Second, look at the pattern of the cuts at the tip of the bullet. It is designed to flare open when fired from a gun with a right hand twist. What do we know about 1911s? That's right; they shoot LH twist.
While there are other decent choices out there, I stand by ProLoad. Besides, at about $10 a box INCLUDING shipping, and a no bullsh*t money back guarantee, how can anyone afford NOT to try it?
Give John (CEO of ProLoad) a call and try it out yourself. If you don't like it, you can come back on this forum and call me a liar.
Tim
http://www.streetpro.com
Street Smart Professional EQuipment
PS. I don't work for ProLoad, I am not related to John, and I don't distribute their ammo. I just carry it in my gun.
Jedi Oomodo
New member
I use Federal 230gr Hydra-Shoks in my .45. Itis my understanding that the lighter but faster bullets in .45 just don't work as well as the heavier bullets. I recommend using a 230gr load , whatever brand you use. More momentum means greater penetration, increasing your chance of a CNS hit, which will end a gunfight FAST.
------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
------------------
Lady Justice has been raped, truth assassin;
Rolls of red tape seal your lips, now you're done in;
Their money tips her scales again, make your deal;
Just what is truth? I cannot tell, cannot feel.
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe, I can't believe the price we pay- nothing can save us
Justice is lost, Justice is raped, Justice is gone
Pulling your strings,Justice is done...
Seeking no truth, winning is all,
Find it so grim, so true, so real....
If it isna Scottish, it's CRAP! RKBA!
I've been shooting Speer Gold Dot 185 grainers in my Glock model 21. Very accurate and they feed just fine. The powder burn real clean and there is very little muzzle flash shooting in darkened conditions. I've put down 2 deer, both 1 shot kills, well almost first deer got tagged by a semi and the other destroyed a minivan.
I load my Kimber with Hydra Shocks when it is used as th house gun, because;
1.) Hydra-Shok's have a decent reputation.
2.) They feed flawlessly.
3.) They seem to be the most accurate ($.70 a shot may have made me take more time to aim better though)
4.) Yeah, it stung to dish out the $$ to try different loads, but I figured my fat old butt was worth a few $$. Best advice is to try a few different brands and go with what works best in your particular gun.
------------------
CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
1.) Hydra-Shok's have a decent reputation.
2.) They feed flawlessly.
3.) They seem to be the most accurate ($.70 a shot may have made me take more time to aim better though)
4.) Yeah, it stung to dish out the $$ to try different loads, but I figured my fat old butt was worth a few $$. Best advice is to try a few different brands and go with what works best in your particular gun.
------------------
CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
Arnistador:
With all due respect to one's personal preferences, the issue of the direction the petals overlap is utterly, completely MOOT. Consider the rate of twist used to stabilize the short .451 230g bullet. It's what? 1 in 18"? 1 in 20"? I don't remember what's standard, but it's slowwwwww. With respect to the target that it hits, it barely turns at all. Remember that the DOJ recommends penetration of 12" to 16" inches. I.E., the bullet will likely not even travel the distance into the target that it takes to complete one full revolution!! The expansion of the projectile is NOT dependent upon the spin of the projectile, except with regard to the stability that the spin imparts. If it could remain oriented in the same direction, I daresay the bullet would expand just as well when fired from a smoothbore. (Probably, though, the bullet would tumble without a spin about its longtitudinal axis.)
Now, does the Golden Sabre work well? Dunno. I, too have heard talk of jacket separation. I need more data. If you get jacket separation but get 16" of penetration every time, what do you care?
One more projectile to do your work, maybe! 
Anyway, if we're getting jacket separations from G.S. bullets, that actually argues that there's too much expansion going on, rather than that the jacket will not deploy because of wrongly-turned twist.
Frankly, I'm with Rocky Road; I'd like to see a hollowpoint with a tip that WOULD NOT expand beyond .45 cal. Maybe a FMJHP, which would assume the shape of a soup can upon impact! That'd be sumpin'!
Regards,
L.P.
------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
Matt
With all due respect to one's personal preferences, the issue of the direction the petals overlap is utterly, completely MOOT. Consider the rate of twist used to stabilize the short .451 230g bullet. It's what? 1 in 18"? 1 in 20"? I don't remember what's standard, but it's slowwwwww. With respect to the target that it hits, it barely turns at all. Remember that the DOJ recommends penetration of 12" to 16" inches. I.E., the bullet will likely not even travel the distance into the target that it takes to complete one full revolution!! The expansion of the projectile is NOT dependent upon the spin of the projectile, except with regard to the stability that the spin imparts. If it could remain oriented in the same direction, I daresay the bullet would expand just as well when fired from a smoothbore. (Probably, though, the bullet would tumble without a spin about its longtitudinal axis.)
Now, does the Golden Sabre work well? Dunno. I, too have heard talk of jacket separation. I need more data. If you get jacket separation but get 16" of penetration every time, what do you care?
One more projectile to do your work, maybe! Anyway, if we're getting jacket separations from G.S. bullets, that actually argues that there's too much expansion going on, rather than that the jacket will not deploy because of wrongly-turned twist. Frankly, I'm with Rocky Road; I'd like to see a hollowpoint with a tip that WOULD NOT expand beyond .45 cal. Maybe a FMJHP, which would assume the shape of a soup can upon impact! That'd be sumpin'!
Regards,
L.P.
------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?
Matt
I use 230gr Hydra Shoks exclusively in both my Sig P-220 and my Officer's Model 1911. I've tried other loads, 230gr'ers seem to work the best, and the HS has always been 100% reliable in both weapons, and accurate in thr extreme. What more can you ask for?
------------------
"To die as a warrior means to have crossed swords and either won or lost without any consideration for winning or loosing. There is just not enough time and generally not enough strength in the resolve of any man to do otherwise"-Miyamoto Musashi
------------------
"To die as a warrior means to have crossed swords and either won or lost without any consideration for winning or loosing. There is just not enough time and generally not enough strength in the resolve of any man to do otherwise"-Miyamoto Musashi
oberkommando
New member
My thoughts the same longpath, I have shot sabre's into water jugs and have seen the jacket separate, but thats water. Have heard the FBI did extensive testing and use sabre's, also heard it is best round out there for going through barricade material and still working properly after hitting BG, this barrier performace is not as good as Gold Dot when shooting through auto glass esp windshield, but I believe is better for other barriers.
------------------
The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
------------------
The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON
James Montes
New member
230GR. JHP FEDERAL HYDRA-SHOCKs ARE THE ONLY THING I USE FOR CARRY IN MY .45s...
For practice I opt for 230gr. FMJs Sellier&Bellot because it is the most economical (vice- reloading).
+P & +P+ AMMO is not something that I ever recommend...
Not necessary...
The HYDRA-SHOCKs are designed "NOT" to "OVER PENATRATE..."
...they are designed to "MUSHROOM" when they hit a TWO LEGGED TARGET!
My $00.02...
------------------
SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 26, 1999).]
For practice I opt for 230gr. FMJs Sellier&Bellot because it is the most economical (vice- reloading).
+P & +P+ AMMO is not something that I ever recommend...
Not necessary...
The HYDRA-SHOCKs are designed "NOT" to "OVER PENATRATE..."
...they are designed to "MUSHROOM" when they hit a TWO LEGGED TARGET!
My $00.02...
------------------
SURE SHOT
[This message has been edited by James Montes (edited October 26, 1999).]
To the best of my knowledge, there's no BAD 45 ACP ammo out there. Major calibers don't have to rely on expansion for effectiveness. Current GM likes the 185 gr Silvertip so that's what I carry. Practice ammo is a medium reload, 200gr SWC. This particular weapon is not ammo critical, feeds everything w/o any glitches.
IMO, carry whatever works reliably in your weapon and groups well.
IMO, carry whatever works reliably in your weapon and groups well.
Mike Spight
New member
zentao:
In my 220, Speer 230gr Gold Dots...
I also carry plain old 230gr hard ball at times, though mostly for practice and matches.
Mike
In my 220, Speer 230gr Gold Dots...
I also carry plain old 230gr hard ball at times, though mostly for practice and matches.
Mike
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Remember this: the .45 doesn't NEED to expand. As it exits the barrel, it is already what the niner mike-mike seeks to attain. [/quote]
I'm glad s/o else said this instead of me, for once! Thanks, I needed that!
------------------
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
I'm glad s/o else said this instead of me, for once! Thanks, I needed that!
------------------
We don't have a chaplain here, but I don't view that as any major problem... You can rest assured that you will not go in that bag until I've said a few appropriate words over you
R. Lee Ermy as Sgt Major Haffner, from The Siege of Firebase Gloria
I was just wondering if this is true stanerd 45. ball ammo goes about 800 to 900 fps but whne they did tests on card windshild or the side of a car door the bullet fps droped by half. 450fps with a 230grain bullet will still kill/or disable the person but was wondering is there any 45 ammo that will exceed bettert performance going threw a car door or windshield?
- Status