45 long colt cartridge

".45 Long Colt" is a moniker that has become accepted through common usage. Up until recently, all my "big name" factory boxes of ammo listed it as ".45 Colt" on the end flap.

And, while we're on the subject of monikers, I've seen lots of .380 auto cases headstamped ".380 ACP," ".380 APC," and ".380 CAP."

I guess it just depends on how one was feeling on that day.:D
 
Two more questions about the cartridges in the link above:

First, none of the bullets of those different .45 caliber cartridges seemed to have a flat point, which I had thought was a characteristic of the .45 Colt,
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All of the cartridges in the link I provided are the standard RNFP (round nosed flat point). It's just that after one hundred years of being bumped around and corroding the flat point looks like it is round.
 
Cartridge is strong enough for a cartridge, but there were a lot of problems in getting a copper case to hold a berdan or a boxer style primer. The copper simply isn't sufficiently robust.
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Yes, but copper is fine for holding the primer initially. It was when the army experimented with reloading that the issue manifested itself.
 
Oh Boy, another .45 discussion…
.45 Colt or .45 Long Colt?
.45 ACP or .45 Automatic?
Is anyone actually confused? Or, are some folks just picking nits for the sake of picking nits.
 
Thanks for the explanations. I've even got one cartridge with no primer whatsoever; just a little hole of about less than one millimeter in the center of the base. Still has the bullet, too. I think it's a Maynard. Really wide rim, about a .50 caliber bullet.
 
"Yes!! I missed the "H" when I typed "CAP."

CAP is also a valid headstamp on some .25, .32, and .380s manufactured probably through World War I.
 
"Yes, but copper is fine for holding the primer initially. It was when the army experimented with reloading that the issue manifested itself."

Actually there were problems before that, as well. Apparently the copper cases, once formed and pierced for a primer, would rather rapidly crack around the primer pocket and during shipping the primers would actually fall out. Annealing, I guess, wasn't thought of for cases back then.

From what I understand that's why commercial manufacturers adopted brass for case manufacture LONG before the military did.




"I've even got one cartridge with no primer whatsoever; just a little hole of about less than one millimeter in the center of the base. Still has the bullet, too. I think it's a Maynard. Really wide rim, about a .50 caliber bullet."

I've got one of those.

Externally primed cartridges were a transitional step between paper cartridges for muzzle loaders and large-bore self contained center-fire cartridges.

Their heyday came during the Civil War. Maynard, Smith, Gallagher, and Burnsides carbines were the big names in externally primed cartridge carbines.

Along with the Maynard, I also have a Gallagher and a Burnsides cartridge.

In fact, I owe someone photographs of all three...
 
CAP is also a valid headstamp on some .25, .32, and .380s manufactured probably through World War I.
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Actually, I did mean to put "CAPH" and not "CAP." I don't think I have ever seen a "CAP" headstamp, only the "Colt Automatic Pistol Hammerless" version.

Now I have to look out for "CAP" marked brass.:D
 
When you think about it, it isn't surprising that such a wide variation existed in cartridges with (almost) the same name. After all, everything was new in the 1870s and it generally takes a while for things to settle down. Think about it. The Colt Single Action Army was only in official service for about 20 years before it was replaced--then recalled briefly. When someone decided maybe it was a good idea to have an automatic pistol cartridge between 9mm and .45 ACP, there was more than a little experimenting with different lengths and whatnot before the .40 S&W became a real standard, though the also rans will be around for a while. A hundred years from now, people will be scratching their heads about it.
 
I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles.

Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article.

Elmer Keith said you wouldn't wonder why it is called .45 Long Colt if you had seen the short smokeless .45s turned out by Peters before WW I. He found them low in power and poor in accuracy. I have never seen another reference to the round, was it a smokeless load of .45 S&W? If so, why? The Schofield was long obsolete by then.
 
"I allus thot the .44-40 designation came about when Marlin did not want to put that big WCF on their rifles."

The first rifle that I know of that Marlin chambered in .44-40 was the Model 1894, and by that time the .44-40 had entered the lexicon, so I don't think Marlin had anything to do with it.

The first company I know of other than Winchester to chamber a rifle in .44-40 was Colt in 1884 with the Lightning slide action.



"Ever see a SAP headstamp from when Savage had ammunition made for their pistols with no reference to Colt? All I have seen were in an old Gun Digest article."

I've never seen a cartridge marked SAP, but Savage DID for many years mark .25, .32, and .380 cartridges <caliber> A.S.P for Automatic Savage Pistol.
 
MikeKPP said:
Since the 45 long colt cartridge was longer in 1873 then today. Would that make the cyclinder longer or its the same size as todays peace makers.
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Criminy! Y'all still goin' strong I see....

The only reason I threw some gasoline on the ol' fire was because of the unusual post of the OP. The use of the name 45 Long Colt along with the words longer in 1873 was just too tempting. That's why they call me El Travieso Diablo. Let me know if y'all get low on matches or gasoline. :p

p.s. It's 45 Colt....:D
 
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