.45 FMJ vs .38 LSWC+P for self defense

A

auburn2

Inactive
Ok I am going to the people's republic of NJ for a while, where expanding ammo is illegal. As a result my normal defense guns designed for fast, jacketed, hollowpoints (.40 SW, 9mm) are staying home. I am leaning towards taking either a run of the mill Firestorm 1911 copy using speer FMJ ammo or a S&W model 64 4-inch using Remington LSWC .38 spl +P.

Which would work better as a defensive handgun? I'm thinking the two I'm looking at are a wash in terms of stopping power. Even though the .38 LSWC is a "non-expanding" round as far as PRNJ is concerned, it will actually expand quite a bit. I also have been told that the .38 FBI load (158gr LSWCHP +P) from a 4" barrell will outperform a .45 FMJ ... but then this is a real hollow point.

Both guns are reliable, with th .45 having cycled the last 400 or so rounds flawlessly. The model 64 has of course never had a failure.

I've got a couple other options too a S&W .357 Magnum 6" and a S&W .44 Mag 4". Both of these are a bit big though and I figure they would likely overpenetrate with non-expanding magnum loads and with special loads would offer nothing over the .45 or .38.
 
Don't rule out .38 Special 148 grain wadcutters -- especially if you can find some +P loaded. The only problem with them is they can be slow to reload.
 
I have my 148 gr WC loaded in the 38 and have 158 gr SWC in speed strips for the reload. In my 44 Special Bulldog I have 180 gr WC in the gun and 200 gr FRN in the speedloader for a reload.

You'd probably be better off with the 45 and ball ammo if you shoot it better than the 38 snub.
 
Does the New Jersey law prohibit hollow point ammunition or expanding ammo? If not the latter, I think you'd do well to try one of the expanding FMJ loads.
 
Either one is acceptable for social work, so i'd instead focus on the two platforms in question. Which are you most likely to carry? As long as you're reasonably accurate with it, thats the right choice.
 
Those are what I use in most of CCW guns. I know some think you have to have a $2 zombie bullet but in my world the 45 ball and the Lswc work fine. Shot placement is still King. Take what you shoot best.
 
Put some of that 38 LSWC +p over a chrono and you will want the 45 FMJ!

My experience chrono-ing 38+p 158's is that they are slow! For example winchester 158+P only did 887 out of a 5" barrel. Vintage Remington (1950's) 158's did 838 out of the same gun.

4.6 grns of Unique with a 158 (a non +p load) will get you 925 FPS out of a 5" barrel and 893 out of a 4" barrel.

So, don't lay your faith in the wishes of the marketing gods. +p may or may not mean anything. When I can beat Winchester's +p data with a less than book max load of unique than it can't be that much of a +p load.
 
I am leaning towards taking either a run of the mill Firestorm 1911 copy using speer FMJ ammo or a S&W model 64 4-inch
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I'd take the Firestorm.
Less $$ to lose if NJ's finest get wind of you having it.
 
No hollow points? I would go with .38 wadcutters or .45 ACP for carry (Can you carry in NJ?) and then 5.56 or 12ga slugs for home defense.
 
Just a bit of background, if I may.
The .45 ACP was adopted by the military simply because the .38 was proven to be an extremely poor stopper. The .45 proved to be just the ticket required. This was with the standard 230 gr. military hardball load.
I have carried a .45 both on and off duty for more years than I care to count. It has ALWAYS been loaded with hardball ammo. The ability to stop a crazed, drugged up Moro is plenty good enough for me.
Just my opinion
 
Just a bit of background, if I may.
The .45 ACP was adopted by the military simply because the .38 was proven to be an extremely poor stopper. The .45 proved to be just the ticket required. This was with the standard 230 gr. military hardball load.
I have carried a .45 both on and off duty for more years than I care to count. It has ALWAYS been loaded with hardball ammo. The ability to stop a crazed, drugged up Moro is plenty good enough for me.
Just my opinion
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It is worth mentioning that the .38 the army was so dissatisfied with during the Phillipine Insurrection was not .38 Special but rather the older, weaker, now-obsolescent .38 Long Colt which was loaded with 150gr LRN bullets. A .38 Special or .38 Special +P loaded with SWC or HP bullets is a very different animal and not really comparable.
 
As mentioned if the expanding fmj loads are legal get those for the 45. If not get some buffalo bore lead flatpoints for your 45. I took a deer with one this year at 10yds and it did very well.
 
Ed Lovette in his timeless book The Snubby Revolver ranked the 158 grain LSWCHP the ballistic equivalent of the 230 grain 45 ACP hardball load. While that may be true concerning the similarity of final bullet diameters and depth of penetration, the actual wounding effect on humans is probably more pronounced with the forty five.
 
Webley
I accept your correction. However, it makes no nevermind as to the stopping power of the .45 ACP hardball when compared to the .38. Special or otherwise.
That 230 grainer is now, and has been proven to be a great manstopper. I am not saying that there have not been improvements in the load, I just wonder if they were really needed, or are a method of making more money.
Like I said, just my opinion.
 
Pistol Pete said:
My experience chrono-ing 38+p 158's is that they are slow! For example winchester 158+P only did 887 out of a 5" barrel. Vintage Remington (1950's) 158's did 838 out of the same gun.
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They are plenty fast at those speeds and will easily penetrate the torso, with enough oomph to disrupt the vertebrae.
 
The 45 with fmj rounds no question.

A 45 round in a bad guys chest is already bigger if it hits a rib or something and that will take care of the expansion part.

I can't see how any .38 round that was'nt a modern expanding round could match the 45.

In fact,another aspect of the 1911 model 45 is that it is respected as a none gangster gun.

Less likely that you'll get a weird look if you have to show you are carrying but the 38 is the same in that respect too.

Just my opinion here,not trying to start an argument.
 
Yankee Doodle, What you posted has been spoken and printed many times by many people..... but it isn't actually true. The .45 didn't stop crazed Moro tribesmen either! There were problems stopping them with the 30/40 Krag. The large .45 bullet is comforting and it is a good round....but "stopping power" in handguns is more mythological than measurable. Having shot a number of animals with handguns of .22lr-45caliber I have given up the notion of "stopping power" except to note that penetration through vital spot CAN shut things down quickly but nothing seems to guarantee it. Best stoppers of large animals in my limited experience? .22 WMR and 9mm Parabellum ( and ,no, I don't make too much of that since statistically it may be nothing but a fluke)
 
Now a days I have as my self defense round Buffalo Bores LSWCHP 158gr +38 round in my S&W model 10 4 inch or my Ruger Police Service Six. There rated at 1100 fps or more. I have practice with this round and believe me its like shooting a 357 magnum round. In my opinion if I do my job I don't think I would have a problem in a self defense situation with the Buffalo Bore round.
Regards,
Howard
 
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