.45 colt or .44 magnum, which hits harder?

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Mr. Garrett, Protoolman...

Both of you please take a step back, or take your disagreement to email.

Protoolman, Randy is addressing the technical aspects of your loads. He's not personally insulting you, as it appears you're doing to him. Knock it off.
 
I'm not about to jump on a bandwagon here, but I must say that I subscribe to John Linebaugh's train of thought here. For an interesting look at .44 mag vs, 45 Colt, take a look at this: http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/gunnotes.htm#bullet2

I have to agree with John, that a .45 Colt can do anything a .44 Mag can do, but at lower pressures, and at 1/2 the barrel length. I've shot plenty of both, and while I'm no expert, I see the same results.
 
Protoolman,

Why all the rankor? I am sure you are a fine gentleman, so there shouldn't be any need for name calling. Regarding pushing 320-grainers to 1340-fps from a short-barreled 45 Colt, consider this. Corbon's 320-grainer for the 454 Casull is doing just 53-fps faster from a 4 5/8 inch Freedom Arms gun that we have in the shop, and God knows the 454 Casull works at much higher pressure than is safe in a thin walled Blackhawk six-shooter. Also, your comments regarding the pressures that can be used in the Blackhawk are obviously mistaken. It is certainly true that the 357 Magnum can work at considerably higher pressure than the 45 Colt, that should be obvious from the vast difference in chamber wall thickness that favors the smaller 357 Magnum. Thicker chamber walls allow higher pressures. That's pretty obvious.

Protoolman, again, there's no need for silly name calling. Our conclusions are the result of much chamber pressure testing and constant consultation with the industry. Our products are widely hailed in the industry as among the finest money can buy, that's apparent to anyone who reads the shooting magazines. Lighten up, my comments were not a personal attack.

Best regards, Randy Garrett
 
protoolman, you suggest that Hornady lists your stated load and therefore it is a safe load. I have checked their handbook and cannot find your load listed. While it is true that they list a 300 gr jacketed bullet and IMR/H 4227 combination, that is not your load. Further, those combinations go to a max of 1200 fps not 1300 fps.

You apparently missed or ignored Randy's barrel length admonition. You are getting over 100 fps more velocity from a 4 5/8" Blackhawk barrel than the 10" T/C Contender Hornady used in their testing. You are in the danger zone with this, whether you believe it or not.
 
No Phil, they are not close to protoolman's load. They use H110 (very similar to W296) not 4227. You'll note that the 4227 loads are slightly less than the 1200 fps Hornady lists. Also note that most pressures are around 30,000. Linebaugh also figures that the max pressure for the Ruger Blackhawk is 32,000 CUP.
 
Mal H
I guess I was thinking about the Randy's no combination possible comment. Still there are the barrel length differences and I should not have compared it to ptoolman's load given the different powders. I respectfully defer to the people who actually know something :o

So much to learn, so little time. Back to lurking
 
Protoolman,

You're out of line here when you suggest Garrett is pushing .44's as some sort of sales ploy.

Anyone can look back up the thread here and read his posts where he says he thinks the two rounds are comparable.

It was a cheap shot and totally uncalled for.

What he IS saying is that the load you mention exceeds safe pressures.

He has pressure testing equipment and does this for a living.

You have a chrony and do it for a hobby.

He has been polite and and cited his reasons for advising you and us against that load.

You have attacked his personal ethics for merely stating his educated opinion.

Who do you think we are going to believe?





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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Don't understand what the big hoopla is all about. Always thought that the best caliber is the one that can hit the target. There is no magic bullet. It is all in the shot placement. Any 250-260 grain bullets over 1250-1350 FPS will produce a TKO of over 20-21. A 20 TKO is enough power to go through a elk bow to stern. Like Randy said, we are splitting hairs here. A particular gun can be 41, 44, 45, 454, whatever. It is what you are comforable with that counts.

Robert
 
Gonna jump in here and add my 2 cents......


Randy Garrett is one of us, and is more interested in safety than most.
His experience is broad, so don't discount his discussion as 'sales pitch'.

He makes great ammo.

Still think mine is better (but I know his is tested more! LOL).


Redhawks are stronger than Blackhawks. You can disagree, or whine, but it is true.

And I think a .452" 370g WFN-GC at 1200fps will penetrate to the hips......of an elephant ! LOL!

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Proper comparison: <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Bullet weight to bullet weight [Not 300 v. 320] <LI>Bullet type to bullet type. [Not jacketed to lead]<LI>Pistol type to pistol type [Not Contender single shot to Ruger revolver] <LI>Barrel length to barrel length [Not 10" to 4 5/8].</UL>

Claiming that you have matched the load in the reloading manual until you've done the above is incorrect. Too many changed variables!

[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited March 29, 2000).]
 
Thanks for the info on the cross-sectional density, after pondering it for a while I began to realize what Randy was saying.

Sorry that you can't find any molds to meet your requirements Randy, one day somebody will come along that takes joy in their work and you'll find you a mold maker.

I am certainly going to keep this thread saved somewhere, all the information in loading the .45LC will come in handy. Personally I have loaded 255gr SWC lead on top of both W296 and H4227; it would have been nice to to chrony and pressure test those loads. I thank God I was firing them outta the .454Super Redhawk. The H4227 was supposed to be about 24,000PSI but felt awfully close to the W296 at 30,000PSI+.

I know that disagreements can create unnecessary tension and sometimes hurt feelings, but debate and discussion are the anvil upon which wisdom and knowledge are forged. Keep it within the lines and we all will win.
smile.gif


DaHaMac
 
Agreed, besides this one is now over 100K. It's time for part 2, but sans personal attacks of any nature from anyone...
 
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