.45 colt or .44 magnum, which hits harder?

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There is a point of diminishing returns. If you're hunting T-rex, go for .454 Casull.

Otherwise, pick either, and be happy. If you want to go for lower pressure, heavier rounds, probably .45 Colt.
 
in a stout revolver like a Ruger the .45 colt will surpass the .44 Mag in almost any loading and do so with less pressure. i don't have the adress handy but search the web for Linebaugh handguns or look under Sixguns.com, at the Linebaugh site there is an article that will make you want to chuck rocks at the .44 Mag. if you have a .44 Mag i would not sell it to get a .45 Colt Ruger or a 454. but if you reload and are looking for a hunting revolver, the .45 Colt Blackhawk with a Houge rubber mono grip is an awsome hunting revolver at a bargin price.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
It seems that the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt are capable of about the same performance from 6-shot revolvers. It is true that the 45 Colt can achieve the same power as the 44 Magnum with less pressure, but it has to due to the fact that the chamber wall thickness of 45 Colt revolvers is less than that of 44 Magnum revolvers, especially in 6-shooters. However, it is also correct to point out that the 45 Colt when producing comparable power to the 44 Magnum is doing so with bullets of less sectional density. For instance, a 300-gr 45 Colt bullet has less sectional density than a 300-gr 44 Magnum bullet, and consequently tends to penetrate less than the 44 Magnum bullet when driven to the same velocity and power level.

If a guy loads his own ammo, and is competant in his ability to build ammo that is not over-pressure, then the 45 Colt is as good as the 44 Magnum. If not, a guy can get into trouble faster with the 45 Colt. Both calibers are excellent, and when properly loaded will produce extremely similar results.

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com

[This message has been edited by Randy Garrett (edited March 25, 2000).]
 
Here is what I did, I got the Ruger Super Redhawk in .454Casull, when I need a real blast I go .454, when I need a medium loading I go .45LC, heck if I needed it around the house for personal defense I can use .45LC

I am interested in that you said Randy about the density of the 2 calibers. I would like to learn more about that. Anyways Mr. Garrett are you going to put out some of youse bullets for .45LC or .454Casull. I am looking for a good alternative to cor-bon. Then again, it will be rare occasions that I will need the heavy duty .454's.

DaHaMac
 
If loading 360/370g or 395g WFN bullets in the 45 I believe higher performance is available.

But then, that's just me.

320g WFN in 44 is nothing to sneer at, either..........

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
My buddy test loaded some 370 gr. bullets for his Smith, .45 Colt. It was WAY over pressure with the recommended load. Weshoot, do you have any loads worked up on 370's??? The bullet manufacturer (I don't know who made them)recommended 19.0 grs. W296.

A .45 Colt is very impressive with 255 and 265 gr. bullets. Remember .44 mag is actually .429". The colt is .452".



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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
I've had some experience with reloading the .45 Colt but none with the .44 Mag. However, from what I've read when the two have been compared is that yes the .45 Colt can achieve better balistic performance than the .44 Mag. But that is if you know what you are doing.

One thing that I've noticed as I'm sure those who have shot both calibers can attest to, is that the .44 Mag will have a much more felt recoil than the .45 Colt. The .45 Colt, while heavy recoiling, seems to have a more solid "thump" than the .44 Mag's sharp crack.

I've not hunted with either one but the .44 Mag is probably used more often and would be consideres more "famous" for hunting than the .45 Colt. Although many dead Outlaws, Cowboys and Indians can attest to the ability of the .45 Colt.

Just my ¢.02 worth
 
DD,

No recommended loads for S&W pistols; they just don't have the strength....


W296 = right choice IMO


...sectional density sectional density sectional density...

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am interested in that you said Randy about the density of the 2 calibers. I would like to learn more about that. [/quote]

Sectional density = (Bullet mass)/(Area of bullet's cross section)

Since the area of the bullet's cross section increases as the square of its diameter [Area = Pi*(Diameter/2)^2], the fairly small (5%) difference in diameter between the .45 Colt (at 0.452") and .44 Magnum (at 0.429") results in a 12% sectional density advantage for the .44 with bullets of equal weight.

In theory, the narrower .44 bullet should retain more energy at extended range than the .45 since it won't lose as much velocity to air resistance. Pass up those 200 yard shots with your handgun and it shouldn't make much of a difference. :)


[This message has been edited by Matt VDW (edited March 27, 2000).]
 
Thus, the penetration from a 320g hard-cast Kieth-style .45LC is going to be very very similar to a 300g .44 Mag bullet of the same type at the same velocity.

I can live with that. For Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks, it's pretty much 6:1, half-dozen t'other. If you do not reload, .44 Mag is your baby.

IMR 2400 seems to be the stuff for stoking the bigger bullets at higher velocities.
 
I'll wait and see if Randy Garrett comes back to explain the sectional density thing before tackling the question myself.

I always assumed the .45 Colt was a better carry gun here in bear country than the .44 mag but after hearing Randy's experiences on the subject, I'm leaning more towards the .44 mag.
The extra diameter that the .45 has is largely negated by the extra penetration of the .44 when it comes to stopping a bruin (I don't think it matters a fig when speaking of deer hunting).
If you think about it - if the .44 only penetrates say, an extra 6" in flesh, that may mean the difference between hitting the lower spine or rear hip joint, or just stopping in the innards someplace - literally the difference between life or death.
I don't think any handgun is a great choice when it comes to the big bears here on Kodiak but there are times went you want to have a gun and just can't deal with a longarm (fishing for example) - any edge has to be considered.




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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Selecting between a good 45 Colt and a 44 Magnum for bear defense is an exercise in hair splitting. They perform very nearly the same when loaded to full potential in the six shooter. The 44 Magnum enjoys a sectional density advantage over the 45 Colt, but the 45 Colt enjoys a diameter advantage over the 44 Magnum. Since the 45 Colt generally has thinner and weaker chamber walls than the 44 Magnum, at least in a six shooter, the 45 Colt must be kept to lower chamber pressure.

There are all kinds of writers out there that offer "evidence" which proves one to be superior to the other, but I have yet to see such "evidence" that was not tainted by the use of bullets of differing efficiency in power generation. Seating depth is a huge player in how much power can be generated by a given weight bullet, and yet that is rarely discussed when comparing how much power the two calibers can generate.

I have much more experience with the 44 Magnum than the 45 Colt, and my experience clearly indicates from our customer's field experience that the properly loaded 44 Magnum (hard-cast bullets) penetrates to about the hips on frontally shot grizzly bears. However, field reports indicates similar performance from the properly loaded 45 Colt.

We are constantly doing impact testing of various calibers, and our penetration testing indicates a slight advantage for the 44 Magnum over the 45 Colt, however, the 45 Colt tends to cut a slightly larger penetration channel. All things considered, I think it is as close to a photo finish as we are likely to find in the world of terminal ballistics. If you already own a 44 Magnum, there is no good reason to acquire a 45 Colt for improved bear defense, and if you are properly handloading the 45 Colt, it would be equally fruitless to buy a 44 Magnum for improved bear defense.

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com
 
I just want to say that this is one of the most interesting and informative postings that I have come across in a long, long time. Much thanks and keep it up.
 
DaHaMac:

I wish we could come out with a full potential loading for the 45 Colt, however, we are unable to find a custom mold block cutter capable of cutting to our specifications. All of our 44 Magnum and 45-70 cast iron blocks were cut by the finest mold block cutters to ever grace the industry, Hensley & Gibbs, but they closed their business last summer after 70-years of excellence. I would like to offer a weight-forward design of about 350-grains with a .340-inch meplat for the 45 Colt, but, again, I have yet to find a block cutter I can do business with. If that changes, I will definitely come out with something new for the fine 45 Colt, but our attempts to find a competent cutter has so far been fruitless.

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com
 
I've never had to deal with an anger bear and frankly don't do much hunting any more. I mostly just punch paper these days. I prefer the .45 Colt simply because it throws a fat heavy bullet at good velocity without all that "buck and roar." Frankly, deer sized game hit with a standard velocity .45 Colt at reasonable ranges will be just as dead as if hit with more powerful .44 mag. Less noise, less recoil and less pain for the shooter. I like that.

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Politically, Fashionably and Aerodynamically Incorrect!
 
Protoolman,

LBT was run by Veral Smith, and unfortunately he is in the slammer for a couple of years for tax evasion. The guy that cut our blocks was my good friend Wayne Gibbs of Hensley & Gibbs, but unfortunately he has closed his business. I know there are a lot of guys cutting blocks, but nothing like the craftsmanship of Hensley & Gibbs. At least nothing I have found yet. I sure would be interested to hear of any cutters of super quality blocks that you know of, as I would like to expand our offerings a bit. With Hensley & Gibbs, they could guarantee bullet diameters, bullet weight with the caster's preferred alloy, and accomodate new designs for an affordable price. They also cut great, cast iron blocks with terrific thermal qualities that contribute enormously to our ability to control block temperatures, and resulting bullet quality. Wayne Gibbs was truly a master of his trade, the closing of his business was a terrible loss to serious bullet casters.

It's true that the Ruger 45 Colt Redhawk has excellent cylinder strength, and that the extent to which it takes a backseat to the 44 Magnums produced by Ruger in their double-action is not all that significant, but the Blackhawk in 45 Colt definitely cannot take the pressures of the Super Blackhawk in 44 Magnum or, of course, the 44 Magnum as chambered in the Ruger double-actions (it is well understood in the industry that the Super Blackhawk 44 Magnum can be safely loaded to a chamber pressure level 10,000-psi higher than the 45 Colt Blackhawk). Truly, the Redhawk and Super Redhawk 44 Magnums are in a strength class by themselves where 6-shooters are concerned, with the obvious exception of the new Super Redhawk in 454 Casull.

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com


[This message has been edited by Randy Garrett (edited March 28, 2000).]
 
Protoolman,

1340-fps with a 320-grain hard-cast bullet from a 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk is patently unsafe!!! As commercial ammo builders, we are frequently running into handloaders who push the envelope excessively, and this is a good example of it! The Blackhawk should absolutely not be pushed beyond 30,000-psi, and there quite simply is no combination of gunpowder, bullet, seating depth, crimp, primer and case that can come anywhere near that performance level from a short barreled 45 Colt and not exceed 30,000-psi by a large margin. Also, the practice of substituting components is dangerous and should not be indulged where maximum loads are concerned! It is true that cast bullets will very often give higher velocity than jacketed bullets of the same weight (but as you admit Protoolman, you are substituting a 320-grainer for a lighter bullet), however, pressure testing does not support the notion that cast bullets give higher velocity without increasing pressure. It is commonly believed that they will, but they don't. That's why pressure testing equipment is required before people start "improving" upon published reloading data. Indeed, although cast bullets will generally give higher velocity with a given powder charge, pressure testing clearly indicates that they also give higher, often much higher, chamber pressure.

Handloaders be warned, loads such as the one just described are not safe! We are fully conversant with those that build the various six-shooters, those that write the reloading manuals, those that do pressure testing professionally, and those that write about such practices in the media, and none of them endorse the kind of load just discussed. If you want more power than you can get with a given caliber and/or handgun, get a different gun, but don't tempt fate by exceeding reasonable loading practices!!!

Best regards, Randy Garrett www.garrettcartridges.com
 
Mr. Garrett,

Not to change the subject, but are you going to be offering any .41 magnum bullets in the 250-300 gr. range anytime soon? I have a good friend who does a lot of reloading for .41, and there is a dearth in the market for .41 caliber bullets larger than 250 gr.

Thanks for your time



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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson
 
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