45 auto bullet weight

What bullet weight do you prefer for 45 Auto?

  • 230g

    Votes: 62 66.7%
  • 200g

    Votes: 22 23.7%
  • 185g

    Votes: 8 8.6%
  • Other (please comment below)

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75780

Might consider these if your pistol feeds them reliably. After years of loading 230 jhps for high velocity, am transitioning to these at moderate velocity. Less recoil and more controllable in smaller/lighter 45's..

While consideration is given to expansion tests/etc, am more inclined to prioritize the unexpected and go with heavier bullets. For vermin want some barrier/bone penetration at non-standard angles.
 
Came back to the thread after a few days away, and I need to comment on some of the things said...

A lighter bullet going faster will have more energy, and decelerate faster transferring more of the energy due to the reduced momentum. 230g ball ammo penetration is sometimes like 29in. Which if you figure the fbi standard of a max of 18in thats 11in of over penetration and wasted energy/liability.

I understand your reasoning, but I think there are some points you're not considering. First the math we use for energy numbers is very heavilty weighted towards velocity. The faster bullet will have a higher energy number, but that doesn't mean anything other than a higher energy number.

Energy numbers alone do not tell the entire story of bullet effectiveness. They are a handy number to use for relative comparison but energy alone isn't all that meaningful, other than as an indication of potential. Potential, not results. Results depend on many other factors, besides just energy.

One can. for example, load a .22-250 and a .45-70 to identical energy numbers. Which would you choose to stop a buffalo or bear?? With identical energy, math says they should be identically effective, right? Real world results says otherwise. Mass, momentum area, as well as penetration and, of course the most important, aim are all just as, or more important than ft/lbs of energy alone.

Next, "wasted" penetration... a common concept, but one I don't see as having any real application. There is a difference between what is important to a police agency and what is important to individual survival in a defensive shooting situation.

This is the important lesson from the 1986 FBI Miami shoot out. The round that got the "official" blame (a 9mm JHP) met all the FBI standards (at the time) but stopped just short of immediately stopping the bad guy. It delivered a fatal wound, but not an instantly incapacitating one.

Since then, the FBI has "revised" its standards. The point is that a round that meets those standards can still fail to have sufficient penetration in a real world situation due to variables that cannot be well accounted for or reproduced in testing. There is no magic bullet , and I much prefer a round that goes to its intended target, and then through it, over one that doesn't.

I happily accept "waste" in order to have a reasonable expectation of performing the desired task under any conceivable circumstances.

Mr Browning thought 200 grains was about right. I think the only reason it ended up 230 is that the Army could not cram the 1873 era 250 into a short automatic's case.

This is sort of correct...Browing's original ammo offering was a 200gr @900fps, and certainly would have worked, but it wasn't what the customer (US Army) wanted. The choice of 230gr had nothing to do with cramming a 250 into the short automatic's case, it had to do with what the Army had experience with and trusted, a 230gr at 830-850fps range. This was the load for the .45 Schoefield, which they had been using for decades. While they were ok accepting the new semi auto pistol, the demanded an old tried and true loading, so that's what Browing gave them, but with an FMJ bullet not a lead one.
 
zeke said:
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...roductId/75780

Might consider these if your pistol feeds them reliably. After years of loading 230 jhps for high velocity, am transitioning to these at moderate velocity. Less recoil and more controllable in smaller/lighter 45's..
Those look interesting. They're a bit light, but it looks like they might also be useful load in .45 Colt.
 
Look no further than Luckygunner's test on 9mm.

Second largest expanding 9mm is the "Micro HST" 150gr moving at 888fps--super slow from a 3.5" barrel. It went an avg of 17", which is beyond the average of all.

Drag increases faster than velocity.

FPS and energy are meaningless these days. This forums as long ago agreed the beginning of rifle damage is 2700fps.

It's how the bullet performs. You can't cast skiving like is done on the HST bullet.

As it turns out, Federal "tactical" and HST are placed 3, 4, and 5 in the Luckygunner tests for expansion and all are noticeably slow. They all penetrated just fine.

Will they all "work"? Of course. But if asking for the best, there it is. And it's not FPS that creating it.
 
Those look interesting. They're a bit light, but it looks like they might also be useful load in .45 Colt.
Have a custom Lee mold for 230 lrnfp's with a wider flat nose and no cannelure, but am not a caster. There may very well be commercially hard cast /coated 230 rnfp's by now, but ain't looked in a while.
 
It's actually too bad the standard wasn't 200 grains because it was about 100fps faster at around 950fps and if they had designed a flat point bullet like the 200gr truncated style for the military in 1905 it would probably have given a bit better stopping performance closer to the british webley manstopper ammo. I guess nobody really complained about the stopping power of 230 grain ball compared to a 38 colt round. The biggest advantage would have been for SMG use with significatly lighter stick magazines to carry around. I'm not against 185 grain flying ashtrays at 1050 fps as a decent carry and home defense round but most of the 185s are around 950fps too like most 200s. The nice thing about 230 grain ammo at 850fps is it's not all that snappy and therefore it's probably easier to control. I'm not a big fan of commander sized 45 1911s and find the 38 super to be much more controllable in a commander sized gun. 230 grain ball out of a 5 inch 1911 barrel however is pretty comfortable to shoot.
 
From a 3.8" Glock G36, 4-layers of denim, and 2 1-gal. water jugs (12"):

Picture_011_1024.jpg

Picture-012-1024.jpg

0.87" Average Expansion.




Red
 
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