.45 ACP +P??

S

Swifty Morgan

New member
A long time ago, I fell for the Hornady 1000-free-bullet promotion for the Lock-n-Load AP. I still have a whole lot of XTP 230-grain .45 ACP hollowpoints.

I am tired of looking at the box of bullets, so I want to start reloading.

In the process of deciding what to do with these bullets, I learned there is such a thing as .45 ACP +P. I was looking at new Starline brass, and I saw that they had a +P version.

I have no plans to use .45 ACP for self-defense, but XTP's are defensive rounds by nature, so it seems to make sense to reload them for self-defense velocities. It just seems silly to use them for 750-fps rounds. Who knows? Some day I might hunt with them.

Is .45 +P a serious thing or a novelty? I never thought there was anything wrong with the normal .45 loads, but if +P is for real, I figure why not try it.

The only .45 ACP firearm I have is a Smith & Wesson SW1911. A friend has some sort of full-size Dan Wesson, so I am sure he will cadge some ammo.

Seems like there aren't that many loads for these bullets.

I have Unique, Blue Dot, and No.7 on hand at the moment, but I can get whatever is best, if anyone has a recommended load.
 
Much self-defense ammunition in .45 ACP is advertised as +P. And much of it is not. I don't think there's any such thing as "self-defense velocities." The U.S, military M1911 ball ammo, chugging along at 800 fps (+/- 25 fps) has been doing the job for more than 100 years.

Some representative commercial examples:
  • Remington High Terminal Performance 230-grain JHP ==> 835 fps
  • Fiocchi Extrema XTP 230-grain JHP ==> 900 fps
  • Remington Ultimate Defense 230-grain JHP ==> 875 fps
  • Hornady Crtical Defense FTX 185-grain JHP ==> 900 fps
None of the above are +P. Then I found this one:
  • Hornady Critical Duty 220-grain +P JHP ==> 990 fps
I think a key question would be what velocity the bullet needs for reliable expansion. As an example, I didn't list another Remington Ultimate Defense load. They have one specifically for short barrels. My understanding is that this uses a different bullet, designed for reliable expansion at slower velocities.
 
Swifty Morgan said:
In the process of deciding what to do with these bullets, I learned there is such a thing as .45 ACP +P. I was looking at new Starline brass, and I saw that they had a +P version.

I have no plans to use .45 ACP for self-defense, but XTP's are defensive rounds by nature, so it seems to make sense to reload them for self-defense velocities. It just seems silly to use them for 750-fps rounds. Who knows? Some day I might hunt with them.

Is .45 +P a serious thing or a novelty? I never thought there was anything wrong with the normal .45 loads, but if +P is for real, I figure why not try it.

The only .45 ACP firearm I have is a Smith & Wesson SW1911. A friend has some sort of full-size Dan Wesson, so I am sure he will cadge some ammo.

I have Unique, Blue Dot, and No.7 on hand at the moment, but I can get whatever is best, if anyone has a recommended load.
Click to expand...

It's a thing, and you can certainly try it if you want.

Western Powders has some +P data for those bullets, and you might find the article below of interest.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/fast-loads-for-the-45-acp/99214
 
I agree with Aguila Blanca. Or at least, his numbers seem reasonable, and I'm to lazy and/or apathetic to double-check them.

There's not much need for .45 ACP +P for self-defense against human predators.

But then again, if I must show a need to justify them, I'm going to have to get rid of most of my guns.

I'm just getting into reloading, myself. I don't have a .45 ACP, but I do have a .45 Colt Blackhawk for which I'm just itching to load up some "Blackhawk-only" loads. That pound of 2400 I bought for this purpose isn't going to burn itself, now is it?

I say, if you feel the itch to experiment with some +P loads, do so (always erring on the side of safety, of course). I'm sure the experience will be instructive, whether or not you end up with super-duper manstopper rounds as a result (unlikely).
 
The +P rating gives you another couple of thousand PSI to play with. The Starline +P brass is thicker around the web of the head (so it's not just a headstamp difference as it is with their 38 Special and 38 Special +P brass). That costs you a couple of grains of water capacity, which is enough that some normal pressure loads will break into the +P range just based on that reduction in case capacity. So you want to work up carefully.

That said, most all the +P does for most people with a 230-grain bullet in 45 Auto is to enable it to beat your gun up more. The military tech manuals say they've moved to and 885 fps load that gets energy up to about 400 ft-lbs like their 9 mm ammo. How much difference it makes in combat, I don't know, but suspect improving barrier-busting was the motivation there. The only practical non-military advantage to +P I am aware of is to law enforcement and it is with 185-grain bullets. It turns out 45's have an annoying propensity to bounce off tires, but once you get muzzle velocity up over about 1100 fps, they start breaking the rubber more consistently, and Federal uses a +P load to get that lighter bullet up past that speed.
 
By "defensive velocities," I basically mean something that will make an XTP do its job very well, not mushy recipes for shooting soda cans with lead bullets.

I'm sure the military did wonderful work with non-expanding ammo back before cell phones and personal computers, but I don't think they had much choice.

In my old manual, Hornady lists a wide range of velocities for this bullet. Up to 1650. With 6.1 grains of Unique, they list a velocity of 850 in red with an exclamation point. Pretty exciting.

I found ballistic info from Lucky Gunner. Says Hornady makes ammo with this round, and they call it +P. The speed Lucky Gunner got was 908. The expansion is not great. Oddly, Winchester makes a similar cartridge in both normal and +P, and the velocity difference is 8 fps. The +P boost seems mostly imaginary, but the Winchester bullet expands like crazy. Makes me wonder if I should get a Glock in .45 ACP for daily carry.

Thanks for the link. It looks like if you use the kind of loads the link mentions, you have to fiddle with your gun to protect it from +P damage. Sounds like a lot of hassle.
 
I see a load for No.7 @ 895 fps. That would be fine. I have a big jug of No.7. It would have been fun to try something new, though. Power Pistol sounds interesting.
 
Hornady sells loaded +P ammo using their 230gn XTP; and I have emulated the round. (This Hornady offering is my home defense ammo.)

Through my full size Kimber 1911, the factory offering chronographed at 959 f/s. 10-round sample.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

When I completed my load work up, I settled on 6.8 grains of Power Pistol to yield 924 f/s. The book max is 7.1 grains (which I did test and I believe had excessive pressure). The book OAL is 1.210" and I am at 1.240". However, Hornady is using their own (Hornady) brass and I am using Starline's +P brass. I believe Starline's +P brass is thicker, with less internal volume.

Starline's standard 45 ACP brass averages (10 pcs) 77 grains.
Starline's +P brass averages 91 grains.
So it's easy to surmise that the +P brass has considerably less internal volume; thus, increasing burn rate and peak pressure.

I also did full a full work up using Hornady's 200gn XTP and Power Pistol. Got 'em up to 1028 f/s with 8.0 grains. Book max is 8.2, but I called it good and chose not to work up further.

Getting back to the 230's, I also did work ups using AA#7 and Unique. Both performed well; but Power Pistol was the champ.

We all load how we see fit, but if I'm going to load XTP's, I'm gonna run 'em up good and stout.
 
Nick_C_S said:
Starline's standard 45 ACP brass averages (10 pcs) 77 grains.
Starline's +P brass averages 91 grains.
So it's easy to surmise that the +P brass has considerably less internal volume; thus, increasing burn rate and peak pressure.
Click to expand...

There's no need to surmise when Starline directly states on their website that their +P brass has less volume than their standard brass, and quantifies the difference.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-auto-plusp-brass

And there's this article that shows actual differences in velocity when using the same load in Starline standard and +P brass:

https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/exclusive-handloading-p-brass/
 
I have 200 gr XTP loaded to 1050 fps avg and it’s very near +P pressure max according to QuickLoad and Gordon’s Reloading Tool. It’s 9.2 gr AA No. 5. Book max for Hornady 10th Ed manual is 9.4gr at 1000 FPS. The Accurate Western Powders reload data they post online has 45 ACP +P.

Hornady 10th Ed manual has 230 gr XTP loading data at 900fps max, not +P listings, I won’t post the table but it’s there for you to get if you have or buy the book.

Gel test data I’ve seen suggests XTPs need about 850+ for reliable expansion, Hornady has a table indicating 800 FPS minimum for .45 230gr. With a target 15 ft away you don’t want an 800fps muzzle velocity, maybe if measured at 800 at 10ft.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders
 
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You know, Hornady lists loads up to 900 fps for the 230 XTP, no +P involved. That's a pretty stout round. They tested in a Springfield 1911 5". I'm not a 1911 aficionado, but everyone needs one. So, I shoot a Range Officer on occasion. Winchester White Box is pretty standard at 815 fps. I keep my loads under Hornady's max, but still running about 870 and very accurate. I load Power Pistol, but Hornady has data for your favorite powder I'm sure.
 
This may be heresy to many, but to me, the gun matters more than the SAAMI specs. I don't load for anyone but me, and am willing to risk crossing their lines sometimes, and I haven't been eaten by dragons...yet.

I am in no way advocating you ever do anything that exceeds SAAMI specs, please be clear on that. Any and all risk if you do is your responsibility.

That being said, I once worked up a load using the Speer 200gr JHP (aka Flying Ashtray) that clocked a measured 998fps from the 4.25" barrel of my Browning BDA .45. I'm not going to give the load, its above published levels. NO pressure signs in my gun. Very "snappy" :D

A friend fired one magazine of that ammo through his 1911A1 pattern pin gun. Every round cratered primers. Didn't do it in my gun, did it in his.

The gun MATTERS. (standard brass, too, not +p)
 
....In my old manual, Hornady lists a wide range of velocities for this bullet. Up to 1650. With 6.1 grains of Unique, they list a velocity of 850 in red with an exclamation point. Pretty exciting....
Click to expand...

This has to be a typo, I could find no such load even in my Hornady No. II (1973). I can’t approach anywhere near that velocity with any published +P load in my 16.5” Camp 45 with lighter 200-grain Hornadys. Be careful with what you read on the internet.


.
 
Mycin said:
I agree with Aguila Blanca. Or at least, his numbers seem reasonable, and I'm to lazy and/or apathetic to double-check them.

There's not much need for .45 ACP +P for self-defense against human predators.

But then again, if I must show a need to justify them, I'm going to have to get rid of most of my guns.

I'm just getting into reloading, myself. I don't have a .45 ACP, but I do have a .45 Colt Blackhawk for which I'm just itching to load up some "Blackhawk-only" loads. That pound of 2400 I bought for this purpose isn't going to burn itself, now is it?

I say, if you feel the itch to experiment with some +P loads, do so (always erring on the side of safety, of course). I'm sure the experience will be instructive, whether or not you end up with super-duper manstopper rounds as a result (unlikely).
Click to expand...
Need depends on what the potential use would be. Seems most don't like the idea of a pushing a big bullet faster than standard pressure, but the benefit is greater terminal effect at longer distances. A .45+P is going to hit just as hard at 100 yards as standard pressure .45 ACP does at the muzzle.

How practical is that? IDK, but it's nice to have a hollow point that will perform well out that far.

It's when we get down to 9mm and smaller automatic calibers where the +P doesn't make much sense, there's barely any gain over standard pressure and not worth the extra strain on a pistol. The .45+P will too, but it's a sacrifice I'd be willing to live with, just not something I'd be shooting in boutique 1911.
 
SAAMI only has a +p rating for a few cartridges, and if I understand it right, their +p = up to 15% above standard pressure.

up to 15%

15% is an increase, but is it the significant increase the sales hype makes it out to be??

Your call...
 
.45 ACP +P Maximum is right at 10% higher pressure than standard maximum.
There was an old rule of thumb that for SMALL CHANGES you got about half the increase in pressure out as velocity. So +10% pressure = +5% velocity at best. Vihtavouri said more like 4%.
 
20, 10:19 PM #8
Swifty Morgan

I see a load for No.7 @ 895 fps. That would be fine. I have a big jug of No.7. It would have been fun to try something new, though. Power Pistol sounds interesting.
Click to expand...

Have worked with AA7 and Hdy 230 xtp a little. It will get you the plus p velocities, but it be very touchy about charge weight. For years used 230 gn plus p velocitys in 45 acp to specifically get back the velocity lost from 3 in barrel. Was of opinion jhp design did not work as well after losing bout 100 fps from 3 inchers. The relatively newer factory 230 grainers expand alot easier imo. After all that am back to solid wide meplat at reliable velocity for more control.
 
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