45 ACP lead bullets

One of these days all the knowledgeable geezers will be gone. This information should be made available online. I.e. there should be a sticky on loading pistol cartridges.

Btw, it is easy to get faked out by plunk test if you don't know the difference in sound between lead and brass.

And BTW again, SAAMI screwed up with the 45acp by allowing such a short throat.
 
and I guess some guns do not like cast bullets
Click to expand...

That might be true from from an accuracy viewpoint, but I would have a hard time accepting that from a feed standpoint.

You have pointed out several feed issues with the gun/ammo combination. You can work through then.
 
...And I disagree with it. Headspacing on the bullet, as I described, would be impossible with a long throat, and a key accuracy option would effectively be gone (it cut my 185-grain swaged SWC groups by 40%). That said, you can buy a throating reamer from Clymer and make the throat longer if that's really what you want.


Oldbear1950,

If you look at bullets intended for 45 Auto, you will find a couple of different profiles for round noses. The military bullet is an elliptical profile, while the cast bullet profiles are often a tapered ogive capped with a hemispherical shape. The round nose flat "point" (I've never figured out how a point can be flat) bullets are generally intended for CAS loads in revolvers and lever guns, and their ogive profiles are fatter near the heel of the bullet than typical 45 Auto bullet designs. This could well be contributing to your troubles.
 
Tough to help without knowing what the specifics on the bullet and load are. Like precisely what bullet is being used in combination with what col and loading procedure. Am using a lot of 200 gn lrnfp's. The standard ones do not reach full dia (front to back) till before the crimp groove. With the lube channel, there is very little full dia (usually .452) for the interference fit, and can set back substantially if they interference fit is not tight enough.

The 255 gn version has a full dia for short distance in front of the lube channel. The standard lrnfp's have pretty small flat noses, and feed extremely well in my experience. They may also be loaded to head space on the bullet, if that col is compatible with an individual pistol.

There are also wider nose flat points that can be trouble some due to the width of the flat nose hanging up while transitioning to the chamber.
 
When I first started casting about ten years ago, I bought a mold from Accurate Molds for the Sig P220. I think it was this boolit: https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-230B

The first batch of 50 I loaded up were just a smidge too long and were engaging in the rifling of the barrel. Made for a frustrating morning, to be sure.

I took them back home and reseated them about 0.002" deeper and never have had a problem with them since then.

Give that a try and see what you come up with.

--Wag--
 
Per Zeke's comment, if you look back through 1950s and '60's issues of TAR, you find a lot of the top bullseye shooters not only headspaced on the bullet, as I described, but, with headspacing taken care of, they then went on to roll crimp their case mouths for the best accuracy combination. Hard on brass life, as you start getting mouth splits after a bit, but it works well. It guarantees adequate start pressure and no bullet setback in the magazine.
 
Ready to load 200 grain lead round nose, read oal should be 1.275 for 45 acp, and mine will be shorter than that. made some dummy rounds, 7 of them, fed them thru my two pistols , and they fed great. took the barrels out of the guns, and they look like they are suppoed too. if they feed thru the gun, sit in the barrel like they are supposed too, I would think they would work. So am going to load them with 5.3 grains of bullseye powder.
 
OLdbear1950,

1.275" is the SAAMI maximum COL. 1.190" is the SAAMI minimum COL. These numbers are intended to ensure your rounds will fit magazines and feed from them. You are, however, under no obligation to observe these limits if you find numbers outside this range that work in your particular gun and magazines. It should be remembered that SAAMI numbers are tolerances for manufacturers to observe voluntarily in order to ensure fit and feed in all guns and magazines made to SAAMI parameters for the chambering in question. Many folks find their actual individual gun will work outside those ranges.

Flat-tipped shapes and bullet weights below 230 grains often require something nearer to the lower COL number because bullets of that shape are so short that the case would not have an adequate hold on them if they were seated any longer. Bullets weighing less than 230 grains may also be shorter.

I would try to make sure your bullet is seated at least a quarter of an inch into the case. The case brass starts to thicken below about 0.35-0.36 inches, depending on the brand, so that limits seating depth. If you go deeper, the sides of the case are pushed out and may prevent chambering.

To know how deeply you are seating a bulelt, this simple calculation finds the number:

Seating Depth = Case Length + Bullet Length - COL
 
44 AMP said:
Not sure what you mean by that.
Click to expand...
IMO half of the issues with reloading 45acp relate to bullet profiles that will not chamber at a fixed COL, so folks have to discover a workable COL for their bullet.
Look at the SAAMI drawing for 40SW (a relatively new cartridge) versus the 45acp.

The distance from case mouth to lands on the 40sw is 0.335 inches, compared to 0.168 inches for the 45acp. Makes a big difference with regards to sensitivity to bullet profile.
 
OK, if I'm understanding you correctly, you think SAAMI "screwed up" with what they chose for the .45ACP specs, and you're using the .40 S&W specs as an example of "doing it right"????

Specific to the .45acp, It was a long established round before SAAMI even existed. SAAMI didn't create the specs for that round, Browning and Colt did, and many years later, SAAMI just added their "stamp of approval" to what was and had been the specs.

And that "short throat" worked just fine, for the ONE BULLET the round was designed to use. The fact that many other bullet designs will work was not in the design requirements.

Jump 70-80some years down the road, and yes, you're going to see a different design philosophy. Today's designers have more to work with, can "see farther. because they stand on the shoulders of giants", and so they intentionally created designs to work with as many different things as they can.
 
Every bullet shape can require a different length depending on the profile. SWC bullets need to be seated almost flush with the case. Truncated bullets need the taper to start at the case mouth. If you leave the full diameter portion sticking out because you are going on book length or round nose length doesn't work.
 
44 AMP said:
OK, if I'm understanding you correctly, you think SAAMI "screwed up" with what they chose for the .45ACP specs, and you're using the .40 S&W specs as an example of "doing it right"????
Click to expand...
Yes, I was using the 40sw as an example of a cartridge that is pretty easy to load. I reload it and it has the longest throat I know of. I run out of magazine room before I run out of throat. I don't think I've ever read of someone struggling to find a workable COL with the 40sw...

I also hear of folks struggling with bullet profiles in the 9mm (0.150" throat). So a couple of really old cartridges can be a pain for new reloaders. And I read questions about bullet profile problems pretty frequently on this and other boards.

But I suppose it is really the fault of bullet manufacturers trying to offer something other than ball for these old cartridges.
 
Unclenick's observation about max plunk-test bullet seating for headspace,
and then roll-crimping the 45 ACP case mouth...
is velly intelesting.
;)
 
Mehavey,

An acquaintance of mine has tried it, and confirmed, at least to his satisfaction, that it really is a better mouse trap. Today, taper crimps have become standard for 45 Auto die sets, so you might have to get a Redding 45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp die to do it. I bought one for the experiment, but it's one of a long list of experiments I am working through. 308 pressure v. seating depth ladder is the next one on the list, so I'm not there yet.


Oldbear1950,

Note that Alliant's maximum load for a 200-grain lead semi-wadcutter is 4.6 grains of Bullseye. So, in your shoes, I would actually start with one round at 4.2 grains of Bullseye, which is a classic 200-grain target load, then try 4.4, 4.6, 4.8, 5.0 (the classic charge for 230-grain RN), 5.2, and so on while watching for pressure signs. I note that Alliant has a 200-grain Gold Dot all the way up at 5.8 grains, but a cast bullet with lube grooves will be longer and seat deeper, which raises pressure, assuming the primer doesn't unseat the bullet faster than the powder gets burning. So what you are going to see by way of pressure is something you'll have to try out and see. I am not saying you can't get to 5.3 grains. You very probably will, as the bullet Alliant was working with was a swaged bullet that would have been softer than your cast bullet. On the other hand, it would not be lengthened by a lube groove.

Having experienced a burst case in a 1911 one time and having had to have my doctor take a brass fragment out of my cheek by slicing and removing and stitching back together, I am just recommending you err on the side of caution and not start as high as you proposed.
 
200 grain lead round nose bullets

I made up 7 rounds of dummy 45 acp cartridges, no primer, no powder, and they fed through both guns, no problem, removed the barrels, and they fit in the barrel, as noted just fine, and have loaded 5.4 grains of bullseye powder, and think they should be just fine, will let ya'll know.
Thanks everyone for all the kind assistance
 
factory crimp die

I also purchased a lee factory crimp die for the 45 acp and it seems to work. all my dummy rounds fed with multiple magazines, and in both guns, and when I removed the barrels from the guns seem to fit like they were supposed too. I took the 1.275 oal length as max, and made my cartridges less than that, about 1.260 or less.
 
What book? Did is list your exact bullet, case, and primer? If not, despite matching bullet weight and material, you may get a different result. Avoiding a problem with it is easy. Take just 5 more cases and prime them. Load one with 4.4 grains, one with 4.6 grains, one with 4.8 grains, one with 5.0 grains, and one with 5.2 grains. Fire them in that order watching for cycling issues and pressure signs. Stop if you get a primer leak, loose primer, badly bulged case, or other sign of excess pressure, and back the load down 5% from there and pull all the ones you already loaded. I don't actually expect you to see any pressure signs, but better safe than sorry, as the saying goes, especially as the 5-additional-round cost is so low.

Incidentally, I'm surprised nobody (myself included) has mentioned the old bullet shoulder position rule of thumb for seating 45 Auto bullets. The idea is to seat the bullet so the shoulder is about 0.020" forward of the case mouth (about a thumbnail thickness), though if your chamber has room, you can go to 0.050". It looks like this:

attachment.php


If you have a caliper, can you measure from the base of the bullet to the shoulder? That would provide a clue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top