45-70

I use the Missouri Bullet Company's 405 grain lead RNFP (round-nose flat point) "buffalo bullet", Brinell 18, without a gas check in all my 45-70s -- nice and slow in the Trapdoor and the 1885, a little faster and nastier in the 1886 and the Marlin, but never outright speedy. They're great bullets and the Missouri folks give great service. No critter I've hit at any range with a 405 has gone more than a few yards.
 
Load the 405gr with 5744 to trapdoor speeds, and the 1886 extra-lite makes a fun range toy. The only problem is it makes about four lanes disappear into "the fog of battle."
 
Why would someone need a 400 grain bullet to hunt deer with? I'm curious because I catch hell at the camp for shooting a 180 grain .300 mag... I'm told that my .300 mag is " overkill"
 
Why would someone need a 400 grain bullet to hunt deer with? I'm curious because I catch hell at the camp for shooting a 180 grain .300 mag... I'm told that my .300 mag is " overkill"
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You don't need a 400g bullet to shoot deer. But think of the difference between the gun you use at camp and the gun someone is using that replacates a gun used over a 100 years ago and has a 45cal barrel. A 400g bullet isn't even a heavy bullet in that gun. I think most people who use the 400g bullet do so simply because it shoots the best out of their gun. I've never recovered a bullet from any deer I shot with my 45-70. Is a 400g bullet overkill? Any bullet used in a 45-70 is overkill but that's because it's being used on deer. Use it on a buffalo, grizzly bear, moose, or elk and it's not so much of an overkill anymore. The people using those guns are just trying to use something that was in use well over a hundred years ago. Just something different like bow hunting, or revolver hunting. You can't compare a modern bolt gun in 300mag to a 45-70. They are just two different types of firearms.
 
Shooting a 45-70 is a choice that isn't merited on the ease of shooting. The steep trajectory coupled with possibly heavy recoil is enough to limit the collection of shooters continuing with it. I have several of them. I like hunting hogs and elk with them. They are not ideal for hunting bean fields in Kansas where I do most of my deer hunting. I prefer to bow hunt, so when I take out a rifle, I don't want to feel like its going to be so simple to kill the animal all I have to do is point and shoot. A little stalking or trajectory thought is all part of the hunt. Most of my 45-70's prefer the 405 grain bullets more than a 300. I shoot mine right at 1500fps, and that is plenty powerful enough for anything I have to do. I've worked up 405's to 2100fps out of a Ruger, and they don't kill any better. If you wonder why we do it. Try one out. If you still don't understand, well then they just are probably not for you. 45-70's have caught on with a bunch of us in the last 35 years or so and are probably more popular than ever before. Higher pressure loads are popular with those that hunt bigger game. I've gone the full route of higher pressure to something more enjoyable to shoot. I go through a lot of bullets, so much so to the point that I now cast my own. Getting something to shoot well that is made by me (bullet and load) is half the fun. 45-70's in general don't destroy meat like higher velocity rounds do. You can generally eat up to the hole.

The 45-70 is made for folks that want to have fun.
 
Mete , I picked up a few boxes of Barnes VOR-TX 45-70 300 grain TSX ammunition a while back and am anxious to try them out ! As far as other 300 grain bullets holding together on deer I've had good luck with the Fusion 300 grain factory load passing right through on broadside hits ! My nephew got a very nice 8 point buck using my Ruger #1 and Remington 300 grain factory ammo...same thing complete pass through broadside ! For some reason my mild 405 grain handloads are the most comfortable to shoot even more so than most factory 300 grain loads , go figure ! :)
 
Twice I used a standard 300 factory at fairly close range . Same bullet placement .Entrance hole 2" dia, exit 1" dia holes like they were cut with a cookie cutter !! :eek: I'll stick to premiums like the Barnes !
 
Why would someone need a 400 grain bullet to hunt deer with? I'm curious because I catch hell at the camp for shooting a 180 grain .300 mag... I'm told that my .300 mag is " overkill"
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The "overkill" isn't because of the bullet, but the cartridge (.300 Mag), and the speed it delivers it. Use a 180gr out of a .300 Savage and no one is going to mention overkill.

The .45-70 Govt was adopted in 1873 are our new infantry round. .45-70-500. Loaded with a 500gr bullet. A little later, a "cavalry" load was adopted, with a slightly reduced powder charge, and a 405gr bullet.

This eventually became the most common loading, and the 405gr bullet weight was carried over to smokeless powder loading with jacketed bullets.
 
To those that don't understand.... the 405gr bullet is the "standard" bullet weight for the 45-70. It's not overkill, it's the proper weight for the "normal" velocities the cartridge generated before modern firearms allowed hot-rodding.
To answer the OP's question, I also shoot an 1895 SS, and my standard load uses the Lee 405gr hollow base bullet. They are a joy to cast, and they are accurate beyond belief, when loaded to sane velocities... around 1100 or 1200 fps.
Talk about efficient? I use 15.0gr of Unique powder, no filler, for a very consistent load at about 1100 fps or so. This load will cut almost one hole at 50yds, and will shoot into about 1.25" at 100yds. Got several targets scanned that will prove it. It just puts them in little bitty groups.... if you can call almost 1/2" holes "little bitty"..:rolleyes:
I imagine this load would drop any deer in north America in its tracks, and it is a pure joy to shoot. You can literally shoot it all morning with no pain from recoil.
Try some of those Lee bullets... I think you'll be amazed at how much fun they are.
 
I've shot a number of different bullets out of my rifle and would highly recommend both the Barnes 300 gr. and the Remington 405. In my Sharps with handloads I've had three rounds touching and while recoil was present (in a 13 lb. rifle) it was by no means punishing. I have a hog on the wall shot with the Barnes and one shot with bullet recovered. It weighed--300 gr.

A slow heavy bullet through the ribs won't waste any meat to speak of. Just don't shoot it through the shoulders.....
 
Just this last year I killed my first deer with a suppressed gun. The gun was a Marlin 45-70. I was using a Hornady 500 grain bullet over a load of 2400 powder. The bullet had a muzzle velocity of about 1020 FPS. Even moving that slow in penetrated like crazy.

The Issue with the hornady 500 grain bullets is the canalure (spelling?) is to low to allow the bullet to be short enough to run through a Marlin. So I set the bullet in deep.

The round is quiet. The 45-70 suppressed shooting subsonics is about as loud as a unsuppressed 22lr shooting subsonic loads. It was quiet enough that the doe near the buck I shot did not know what was going on and we had to chase her off.

p.s. ill send you the load data if you like in a PM. Just let me know. Use at your own risk of course.
 
what bullet should i use for a marlin 1895 45-70? i handload, so thats not a problem. this is for my younger brother, wants at least a 400gr bullet, hunts deer in west virginia, and i can do cast bullets( gas checked or no gas checked)(well, whoever makes them!) or jacketed bullets.

thanks!!!
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I use a 430 grain FN with gas check. I size them .460" & lube with LBT Blue. I like 27 grains of 5744. If you wish to purchase some let me know by PM. Also have the others below if you want something lighter.

The 430 FN


45-410


45-300


Maybe a 405 grain
 
I started casting my own bullets for my 45-70 Guide Gun and chose 340 grains as the preferred weight. In upstate NY my hunting is mostly in dense woods. Great penetration on deer. If I were going after elk or buffalo I'd go with a heavier bullet but we don't have many of those here in NY.
 
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