45/70

W

Webleymkv

New member
What is the largest game that you guys would reccomend hunting with the 45/70? I am thinking about a double rifle in that caliber to be (hopefully) used on Cape Buffalo someday. I would most likely use a 500 grn FMJ or solid for penetration which is in my understanding second in importance only to marksmanship when hunting dangerous game.
 
A 45-70 is a 45-70 not a 458 Win .While it is a wonderfull cartridge it's not for cape buffalo or other dangerous game .The 45-70- matches some of the old black powder rifles used in Africa but these are all obsolete because they didn't perform all that well.The ones still used are all 20 century cartridges - 416 Rigby, 470, 458 mag etc.
 
This sounds like the sort of question that Marlin would answer if you wrote them a letter. In their catalog they recommend 45/70 for Deer, Black Bear and "Larger Game" but they don't specify which larger game, just show an icon of a moose head. They recommend the .450 Marlin as being an upgrade cartridge.

Personally I wouldn't try to shoot a cape buffalo with anything smaller than a .416 Rigby and then only if I was up in a tree. I'm allergic to being run over by critters as big as a Ford Expedition. :o
 
Rich Lucibella, the owner of this site, has killed no less than three cape buff with .45-70's. He used Garrett and Buffalo Bore loadings. He mentions it in his post here.
 
The Garret bullet loadings say they have better

Penetration than the 458 win mag due to the design of the bullet etc.

We are talking using these types of bullets and the 458 win mag, win loading though.

I believe if you were loading the 458 with the garrets you would have superior results.

The right loading is the key in the 45-70. The correct lever action is also needed. Marlin is the answer in todays new loadings I believe. Longer barrel is a needed item also. A little bit heavier but it holds better (steady) due to the extra effort your body has to adjust to.

Good choice in my opinion.:)

Harley
 
Comparison?

Are not Bison as large if not larger then Cape Buffalo? Wouldn't any Marlin type .45-70 load be superior in performance to any black powder load? Didn't they use the black powder loads for Bison many moons ago?
 
Roy, your question was asked on another forum recently. One poster showed photos of the bone structure of the cape buffalo and bison. The cape buffalo had heavier bones !!
 
Hide?

But doesn't a Bison have more hide, or hair if you will? I realize that bone is thicker then leather, but a bullet must go through fur before hitting any bone or organ. I was under the impression that if you take a lion and a bear of similar size, the cat is easier to put down because of a thinner hide.
 
If you are considering the Spartan Gunworks SPR22 in .45-70, Spartan makes a point of stating that the SPR22 is for SAAMI compliant loads only. Garrett's monster loads are well over SAAMI specs (Garrett's SAAMI compliant load is notably hotter than Win/Fed/Rem offerings.)
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I was indeed considering the double rifle you mentioned. Is there anyone that makes a SAAMI compliant load using a 500grn or heavier bullet? I'd think that such a load would still be quite formidable for use on dangerous game such a feral hogs and big cats that are somewhat thinner skinned than a Cape Buffalo. Also, what does everyone think of a Gibbs 45/70 on a Lee Enfield action?
 
As has been stated, I've killed Cape Buff with both Buffalo Bore 430 Grain LFN and Garrett 530 Grain Hammerheads. The Garrett's scored 7 for 7 broadside shoot-thrus without apparent deformation. The BB's killed more handily.

If you know the ranges are short (or if you're foolish enough to mount a scope on a dangerous game rifle), the Garretts are the way to go....shoulder shot break-down. For longer ranges, where you're aiming for the Boiler Room, I heartily recommend the Buffalo Bore offerings.

Rich
 
"...Are not Bison as large if not larger then Cape Buffalo?..." Um, size doesn't matter. Miss a bison and he'll run away. A buff will track you down and stomp you into the veldt for bothering him.
"...a Gibbs 45/70 on a Lee Enfield action..." You're looking at finding a used one or old stock in one of their distribuor's shops now. Gibbs quit butchering Lee-Enfields some time ago.
The .45-70, out of a good non-lever action rifle, can be loaded to near .458 Win velocities.
The Garrett guys know how to charge don't they. $55 per 20 for hard cast ammo. Geez!
 
My son shot an elk with hot rod handloads usind remington 405 flat nose, they went right thru him like nothing was there, since then I bought a bunch of 300 gr. hollows but have'nt had a chance to try them.The above is correct about the spartan double rifle, I don't think you can hotrod loads for it, the last time I checked with the wholesaler they still hadn't received any of these guns yet.
 
Penetration is great on bone...

But (and I realize many thoughts on this one) I would rather have the energy stop in the animal. No through and through for me. But of course you are not always able to get the perfect shot on some stuff.

Boiler room shots usually go through and through if you are using the big ones.

I believe any No. American Game is going to go down with the 45-70 in factory loads of the hotter variety. But if it was me I would be hand loading my own...Bullets would vary greatly depending on what I was hunting. Soft vs Hard hide...

I was hard casting bullets in the 80's for all types of hand guns and slow moving (under 2000) rifles. Semi Wad cutters and full Wad cutters with Bill Long a friend of mine, we shot quite a bit of these when I was in the Rod and Gun Club.

Harley
 
Spartan makes a point of stating that the SPR22 is for SAAMI compliant loads only....
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Thinking of getting a SPR22 myself. If I understand, it is SAAMI 28,000 compliant, with 21000 being the old loads, 28000 the "Marlin", and SAAMI 35000 the "Ruger" loads. I see Garret offers both 28 and 35K loads. Are the BB loads 28K? Anything on this continent that can't be taken with the 28K loads?
 
The .45-70, out of a good non-lever action rifle, can be loaded to near .458 Win velocities.
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T. O'Heir,

I keep hearing this and no offense to you sir but it is a load of green steaming hot B.S.

The .45-70 can NOT push a 500gr bullet to anywhere NEAR the velocity that a .458Win can.

It can push a 400 gr bullet to ALMOST the velocity of a 500gr bullet out of a .458 Win mag.

This type of statistical velocity misrepresentation is often the same type of BS we hear during an election year.

This much like saying a .30-30 can be loaded to .300 win mag velocity.

YEAH with a 55gr bullet!

A .45-70 is capable of taking thick skined dangerous game. It is not however a caliber that I would chose to hunt DG with.

To each their own.
 
Hornady is now making ammo with pointed bullets[with rubber tip] which are safe for tubular mags. Now we'll be able to shoot those cape buffalo at 500 yds with no bullet drop !:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
H&H,

He never made any reference to the weight of the bullets :rolleyes:

Yes you said so yourself it is possible if you use 400gr not 500gr loads so its not "BS"

Dimitri
 
He never made any reference to the weight of the bullets

Yes you said so yourself it is possible if you use 400gr not 500gr loads so its not "BS"

Dimitri
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Dimitri,

Apples to apples kind of goes with out saying don't you think?

Any of you guys want to buy a bridge?


John,

As far as my tag line, it is in refrence to a bullet of realiable sectional density and weight at a realistic velocity. The .45-70 has none of the above.
 
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