45-70 load

I shoot a lot of 45-70s in my Browning copy of the M1895 Winchester and my 1978 made Model 73 Trapdoor.

To use the sights on the Trapdoor I have to use 45-70 ammo that the sights were designed for. The 405 gr lead bullet running about 1300 fps fits the sights perfectly.

I dont use much black powder in m 45-70s. I use 28 grs of 4198 which matches the velocity of the Armys BP 405 gr load. AND it matches the sights on my Trapdoor. Its a low pressure safe load for the trapdoors assuming the Springfield Trapdoor is in good shape.

Its also an accurate round in both my Browning and Springfield.

There are lots of warnings about shooting smokeless powder in black powder guns. In most cases those warnings are valid. But there are exceptions to every rule and the Trapdoor is such an exception. BUT pressure guidelines have to be followed.

SAAMI says the max pressure for the 45-70 govt. is 28,000 lbs. Quick load says the 28 gr 4198 load develops 12648 lbs of pressure. Well within the SAAMI guidelines. In my Springfield Trapdoor I'm getting right at 1350 fps.

It matches the sights, its accurate and its a pleasure to shoot, even with the steel butt plate.

Few people know that the Army was in the process of switching the 45-70 round to smokeless powder but the efforts were canceled when the Spanish American War caused us to put the efforts into production for the 30-40 Krag ammo.
 
Ken Waters's pet load for the .45-70 was a 405 grain (more or less) RNFP cast bullet pushed by 38.5 grains of IMR 3031.
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This is ALSO the Lyman manual "factory duplication load" that has been in the Lyman books for generations.

its a good load, and very accurate in all my .45-70s.
 
I recommend getting one of those Load All books on the .45-70. One complaint about those books is all the loads are old but the .45-70 is and old round and I found the book to be very useful.

BTW, the H&R rifle is much stronger than most of what you were told about in in the other forum. This same rifle comes chambered in .30-06...

Tony

Tony
 
I think my first bullet I'm going to try is the Speer hot core 300 gr. Mainly because the factory Federal ammo that uses 300 gr Speer hot cores shoots great in my H&R 4570.

So what then, H4198 with that bullet?
 
My Son and I shoot 45-70`s quite a bit, and own several of them. And IMHO 35grs of IMR-3031 & a 405gr hard cast LRNFP bullet is a hard reload to beat. It works extremely well for us. We use this load for 98% of all our shooting we do.
It is a very comfortable & accurate load to use for about anything we do Cowboy Action, Deer & Pigs, and just a all around fun Plinking load.
ken
 
Any one use the 400 gr Speer bullets?

I'm thinking about developing 2 loads. A lighter flatter 300 gr load for deer/hogs. And a 400 gr thumper .

I was just going to be reloading for a Handi 45-70, but I got a Marlin 189gbl Today on order so gotta work on that one also.
 
Try using 30gr. of 2400 with your choice of any 300gr. bullet. This is the load that I made up for my recoil shy brother who used it successfully on whitetails for many years.

It is accurate, easy on the shoulder and on the rifle and has never failed to do it's intended job.:)

What more could you ask for?
 
44AMP, I'm just wondering, what big game would require the use of Ruger No1 .45-70 loads over standard Trapdoor loads?

I ask as I like the .45-70 and plan to own one in the distant future, but most of the .45-70 rifles I like are on the weak end of the spectrum like Rolling Blocks and H&R Handi's.
 
I don't view it as a question of what game but rather how you extend the point blank range of the gun/cartridge.
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Exactly. That is why Hornady came out with the LeverEvolution rounds. Reduces much of the need to guess exact range and hold over
 
Exactly. That is why Hornady came out with the LeverEvolution rounds. Reduces much of the need to guess exact range and hold over
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The sub tensions in my scope work perfectly for out to 225 yards with a 400 gr bullet at 1700-1800 fps.... Don't need to mess with Hornady and their short cases in my situation. I may just shoot cast bullets
 
44AMP, I'm just wondering, what big game would require the use of Ruger No1 .45-70 loads over standard Trapdoor loads?
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Require?? none.

Nor does any game require a belted magnum shooting at 3000+fps speeds. But a lot of people like to use them...

Because they offer certain advantages, and people accept the recoil and the cost to get those advantages.

Just about everything that walks or crawls has been killed with a pointy stick, or a rock. Lots of people still use pointy sticks, most of them we call bowhunters. ;) Firearms are technology that lets us throw "rocks" harder, faster, farther and more accurately.

Any one use the 400 gr Speer bullets?
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Yes, and they are NOT the bullet you want to use if you are loading into the 1600+fps range. Ask Speer, they will tell you so.

The Speer 400gr flat point is a good bullet, well designed and built to give controlled expansion at black powder (Trapdoor level) speeds. When you push it significantly faster than that, the "controlled" part goes away.

one fellow I know loaded them up to max in a Marlin, and made a spine shot on a mule deer. The bullet did work, in the sense that the deer was dropped right there, but there was a complete jacket and core separation. He called Speer to complain, and they told him, flat out, that was what that bullet would do at that speed. If you want high speed, AND good performance, use a different bullet. A hard cast slug will do fine.

I can tell you from personal experience that if you load that Speer bullet in .458 Win mag and "only" drive it at 2100fps, it acts like a very large varmint bullet. Really, really impressive expansion (some would say explosive,:D) but penetration goes waaay down.

Same kind of thing happens when you drive a 125gr .357 JHP at 2200fps from a carbine. Or a 150gr flat point .30-30 bullet from a .300 Magnum. Way faster than the bullet was designed for, and normal performance is radically altered. Really impressive on water filled milk jugs, though. :D

When I bought my Ruger No.3 .45-70 it came with a 50rnd box of ammo loaded by the previous owner. HOT 350gr RN (and clearly labeled NOT FOR BLACK POWDER GUNS). It clocks and honest 2200fps over the chronograph. NOT a fun load to shoot standing on your "hind legs" it walks me back a step, and I'm not a little guy. Won't shoot it off a bench, and refuse to shoot it prone, unless my life depended on it. :eek: For a long time, it was the load I let someone shoot when they bragged about how recoil didn't matter to them.

No one ever asked for a second shot. :D Been 30+ years, and I still have 19 of those rounds left. I had a stout load (1800fps) with some hard cast 385gr RN used in my Marlin 1895 (modern gun, not the original) one of the pre-button safety, pre-guide gun models. Had an old Weaver 2.5x Post scope on it. Great set up, IF you weren't a stock crawler. One friend was, and gave himself the Marlin version of "Weatherby eyebrow" with it.

The bulk of my .45-70 shooting for the last couple decades has been with 400gr cast and Trapdoor level loads. I'm very fond of the old Lyman manual's "factory duplication load" . If I were hunting something with any chance of it hunting me back, I would go with a heavier load, but other wise, there no real need.

your situation could well be quite different.
 
Don't need to mess with Hornady and their short cases in my situation.
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But, since you are rolling your own you can follow the same example and use a pointed bullet with higher BC.
 
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