44 vs 45

Informative post, good discussion.

There's one problem, however:
Which one is more powerful is NEVER important and shouldn't even be asked.
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So stop these irrelevant questions about which caliber is better.
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You really ought to come to terms with the idea that you are on a firearms discussion forum. Nobody here is formulating the law of the land or building the bible to be passed down to future generations and life on distant planets.

This is discussion and the original poster is looking for some info and simply asked what folks like to carry and why. Others are adding their thoughts. Just like your opinion on the how's and why's are relevant, so is anyone asking "which is more powerful" and "which caliber is better."

I wish you luck in telling people which questions "shouldn't even be asked" and ordering folks to "stop these irrelevant questions..." :rolleyes:
 
If you want to use your .44 Magnum for a carry gun instead of the .45 ACP, you might think about loading it with the .44 Special.

Here are several examples from Federal and Winchester.

Federal:

.44 Special - C44SA 44 Special 200 Semi-Wadcutter HP
Muzzle Velocity - 870fps Muzzle Energy - 336


.45 ACP - C45C 45 Auto 185 JHP
Muz. Vel. - 950 Muz. Ene. - 371

C45D 45 Auto 230 JHP
Muz. Vel. - 850 Muz. Ene - 369
PD45CSP2H 45 Auto 165 EFMJ
Muz. Vel. - 1140 Muz. Ene. - 476


Winchester:

.44 Special - .44 Special 200 Silvertip® Hollow Point
Muz. Vel. - 900 Muz. Ene. - 360

.45 ACP - .45 ACP 185 Silvertip® Hollow Point
Muz. Vel. - 1000 Muz. Ene. - 411

.45 ACP 230 T-Series
Muz. Vel. - 880 Muz. Ene. - 396

Hope this gives you some idea of power levels between the .44 Special and the .45 ACP.

Buddy
 
Hundredths

jhenry said:
Senior Member

Join Date: 2006-05-27
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 356

23 hundreths, not 23 thousandths.
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JHenry,

I apologize for correcting you in public. Someone might apply the math terminology inappropriately and become unsafe.

0.2 is two tenths and equal to 0.20, which is twenty hundredths

0.23 is twenty-three hundredths and equal to 0.230 which is equal to two hundred and thirty thousandths. 0.23" is almost a quarter-inch.

0.023 is twenty-three thousandths and just a little bit more than two hundredths ( 0.02 + )

0.452
-0.429
--------
0.023

Lost Sheep
 
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Sevens; there's a big difference between asking what caliber a person likes; or even a poll of which caliber a person likes; and trying to go off into the direction of which one is better. Or which one is more powerful. If you want the most powerful, some will say this 60 cal might be there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lzri8dn7p0 But what good is it. BEST is a terrible word.

I agree that we shouldn't try and tell people what they should LIKE or BUY. Buy whatever you want. However, when people ask questions in line of which caliber is BETTER than another, they are asking a very ignorant question. If we really care about helping the person, then the first thing they need to know is that NEITHER is best. That any caliber is dependent on the person and the purpose. And that sometimes the most powerful ISN'T the right choice.

The OP mentioned he didn't know much about calibers. Therefor, asking a loaded question of which gun is more powerful, is only asking for debates. If the OP truly wanted to know which of the two would be something he might want to own and possibly carry, he probably should have asked for the PROS and CONS of the two calibers. So I stand by the premise that which caliber is more powerful is not important in the question he asked; nor is trying to get people to bait into a discussion of which is "Better" is a good question.

The truth is; for some people, with a particular purpose, a 32 auto with an 8 round clip is actually the BEST gun for them and their purpose. And no one should ever say it isn't. We've all read where some people like to say; "I don't recommend anything smaller than a 9mm for defense". Definite answers like that promote very bad information for the novice gun owner/user. That statement alone implies that BIGGER is always BETTER. And it isn't.
 
The truth is; for some people, with a particular purpose, a 32 auto with an 8 round clip is actually the BEST gun for them and their purpose. And no one should ever say it isn't.
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Agreed.
Where you rudely assert which questions should be asked and telling the audience that they should cease asking irrelevant questions, we will go ahead and part ways.

First line in OP opening post:
I have read several times that the reason people carry a 45 acp is because the don't make a 46...
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I think this is a light hearted topic, but I suppose we could form a committee and a caliber selection task force and dissect his intentions further...
 
Everyone always gets hung up on the initial diameter of bullets, but consider the following:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/FlyingAshtray.html

.45 ACP +P Speer 200grn GDHP

average penetration: 12.42"

average expanded diameter: 0.664"

http://www.brassfetcher.com/230grSGDSB.html

.45 ACP Speer 230grn "Short Barrel" GDHP

penetration: 14.3"

average expanded diameter: 0.620"

http://www.brassfetcher.com/CCI%20Blazer%20200%20grain%20Gold%20Dot%20hollowpoint.html

.44 Special Speer 200grn GDHP

penetration: 13.75"

expanded diameter: 0.671"

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Speer240grainJHP.html

.44 Magnum Speer 240grn GDHP

penetration: 16"+

expanded diameter: 0.730"

:rolleyes:
 
I never fired a 44 yet but hope to own one day.Just stand next some one shooting a hunting load of a 44 and a 45 ACP 230 GR.The 44 magnum speaks for its self.
 
Apples and oranges. A more apt comparison would be .45 Colt to .44mag.

The old joke "because they don't make a .46" was referencing the .45 Colt not the .45acp.

A .45acp was probably intended to have performance similar to the old .45 colt. While modern powders and pistols have upped the velocity of the .45acp it just isn't in the velocity class of the .44mag or hot loads in the modern .45 Colt.
Even in a large revolver the .45acp is probably not going to send a .230gr bullet past 1000fps.

The .44mag was intended to be the biggest baddest thing in town. Until recently it was. Most of the revolvers designed for the cartridge are pretty darn heavy. They are intended more for a carefully aimed shot than a snap shot, more for a low rate of fire than emptying the cylinder in 3 seconds.
There are lighter guns chambered for .44mag and intended for self-defense. But for some people those guns are very uncomfortable to fire. For many people these revolvers are difficult to fire accurately.

The .45 Colt is much more apple to apple with the .44mag. Given modern propellants and revolvers such as the Ruger Redhawk, it comes very close to .44mag velocities. Of course if you're doing cowboy action shooting that isn't going to do you much good.
 
Correction to Original Post

I apologize for not having the original source data, but I believe the following to be true, as I heard it many years ago.

The original quote implying that "bigger is better" (as far as caliber is concerned - I will leave anatomy to other forums) was from a late-19th century/early 20th century Professional Hunter in Africa.

When asked why he carries a .600 Nitro Express, his reply was "Because they don't make a bloody .700 Nitro Express".

In the days of Nitrocellulose (cordite) propellants and against animals like Hippo, Rhinocerous, Elephant and Cape Buffalo, all of which can be remarkably hard to kill and dangerous, especially when they are mad at you, a 600 N.E. would be a great comfort. A 700, even more so.

As a footnote, a 700 N.E. was eventually developed in 1988.

Lost Sheep.
 
I remember a guy years ago punching paper at the range with 44 mag wadcutters. Pretty impressive holes. Wouldn't want to be hit with one o those.

I can't imagine a 44 mag hollow point would ever fail to expand :o
 
I remember a guy years ago punching paper at the range with 44 mag wadcutters. Pretty impressive holes. Wouldn't want to be hit with one o those.
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I've got some Penn Bullets 225gr. .45 full wadcutters I've been meaning to load for my S&W Model 25-2.
 
Impressive holes

Doggieman said:
I remember a guy years ago punching paper at the range with 44 mag wadcutters. Pretty impressive holes. Wouldn't want to be hit with one o those.

I can't imagine a 44 mag hollow point would ever fail to expand
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Doggieman,

Yep, those .429 inch diameter holes are very impressive, but it ain't the size of the hole, it's the volume of the wound channel.

The ability of a bullet to expand, yet not tear apart, requires it to be delivered on target within a range of velocities (both forward and rotational) that mates with the fleshly density of the target and its covering (denim, leather, kevlar).

Expanding in human flesh is hard to achieve reliably at subsonic speeds. Supersonic speeds are hard to attain with heavy bullets. Penetration to effective depths is hard to achieve with lightweight bullets. These facts generate conflicts in physices that are hard to balance. It can be done, but the difficulty in achieving that balance explains the wide variety of bullets/loads out there being sold/hyped/tested in various mediums and widely misunderstood and misinterpreted all day long.

Like you, I prefer my bullets pre-expanded and heavyweight. Anything starting with at least a ".4" should do. The Moro insurrection at the turn of the last century pretty much proved that 38s were marginal. The U.S. Ary went back to the old Single-Action Army revolver until they brought the .45ACP into existence. Late in the last century, the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge has shown that a .40 caliber is fairly reliable. With or without expansion is still inadequately supported by statistics, but date is building.

Check this thread.
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121
irm if the link doesn't work, paste this into your browser
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121

Lost Sheep.
 
Like you, I prefer my bullets pre-expanded and heavyweight. Anything starting with at least a ".4" should do. The Moro insurrection at the turn of the last century pretty much proved that 38s were marginal. The U.S. Ary went back to the old Single-Action Army revolver until they brought the .45ACP into existence. Late in the last century, the .40 Smith & Wesson cartridge has shown that a .40 caliber is fairly reliable. With or without expansion is still inadequately supported by statistics, but date is building.
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Not to pick on you, but I grow tired of hearing the same old misconceptions about the Moro insurrection. First off, the .38 the army was using was .38 Long Colt which power-wise is about equal to .380 ACP. Secondly, there are also accounts of the .38 Long Colt working famously, Teddy Roosevelt said that a Spaniard he shot at San Juan Hill "crumpled like a jackrabbit" when hit by a single .38 bullet. Finally, the army also had failures to stop with .45 SAA's and M1909 Colt New Service revolvers as well as with their .30-40 Krag rifles. The only thing that would reliably stop the Moros were 12ga Buckshot loaded shotguns.
 
I carry both sort of and not at the same time. .45 auto and a .44 spl handgun and never feel out gunned. Plus extra mag or loading strips for each ;)
 
quote..."Corbon does make a self defense round with a 165gr. at 1300 FPS"


And RBCD makes a 110gr. 44 magnum round.

2430fps and 1440lbs./feet muzzle energy.

(they don't extract well, at all!)
 
countryboywithgun

44 vs 45
[M]y question is what is the real difference...
whats the most powerful of the 2 and
what do you prefer to carry?
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The 44 magnum is easily the more powerful of the two.
The standard load for the 44 mag is a 240 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 1400 fps. A 44 mag bullet has a diameter of .429 inches.
The standard load for the .45 ACP is a 230 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of about 850 fps. A .45 ACP bullet has a diameter of .452 inches.

Of the two, for concealed carry I prefer to carry a .45 ACP in a Colt 1911. I do not choose to carry either of my .44 Mag revolvers because: first, I don't like the trigger action as much as the 1911 ; secondly, the full power rounds are hard to control; and thirdly, their overall lengths are too long for concealed carry.

My ten year old grand nephew fired a 44 magnum for the first time recently (full loads). His initial expression was one of surprise and awe. This quickly changed to a very large grin.
 
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