44 vs 45

C

countryboywithgun

New member
I have read several times that the reason people carry a 45 acp is because the don't make a 46...
I also hear about the power of a 44 mag

So since i don't load my own or know alot about caliber specific loads my question is what is the real difference... whats the most powerful of the 2 and what do you prefer to carry?

thanks guys:)
 
I have a Uberti 44mag and a 1911 colt 45acp
I will never carry my 44mag for over my 45acp for these reasons...
The 44mag will have way too much penetration of the BG to make me comfortable, I would have a longer follow up shot due to the increased recoil, and I cant afford to practice with it much. I heard a story years ago I dont know how true it is but some teens were shooting a 44mag at an old 55gallon drum, I guess one of them missed and the bullet killed an old man in a park about a mile away.
 
Here's some things that might help.

The .44 Mag and the .45 auto aren't even close in terms of "power." The .44 Magnum is much, much more powerful. It's not really an anti-personnel round. It's big, heavy, recoils a lot. Also, it's pretty much a revolver round (save for the Desert Eagle and other few semi-autos). It's much more of a sporting round than a defense or personal protection type of caliber.

Also, the .45 auto is a .452" diameter bullet while the .44 Mag is a .429" diameter bullet, so the .44 is actually a good bit smaller "around" than the .45 is. But much more powerful.

The typical bullet weight of the .44 Magnum is 240 grains. There are bullets as low as 180 and as heavy as 300 grains and beyond.

The .45 runs as low as 185 grains and up to 230. (there are other oddball low and high weight bullets, but I'm referring to typical, generally available factory ammo)

The .44 Magnum pushes a bullet anywhere from 1,200 to 1,500 FPS (generally speaking). The .45 pushes bullets from 700 to as much as 1000 or so FPS.

The .45 runs at a pressure of 15,000 to 18,000 CUP. The .44 Mag runs at twice that pressure.
 
you are kinda talking apples and oranges here. the people that say they shoot a 45 because they don't make a 46 are semi auto fans. they are refering to the 45 auto. to add to the confusion there are larger caliber semi autos, but they are expensive and not common. the 45 auto is the largest readily available semi auto cartridge.

now 44's are revolver cartridges usually they come in 44 specials and 44 mags. again revolver have larger more powerful cartridges too, the s&w 500 magnum pops to mind but there are others. and then there are a few semi autos that shoot these revolver cartridges too. and then there is the 30 carbine with is a semi auto rifle cartridge but can be found in revolvers. hope that answers your questions :)
 
the .45 auto is a .452" diameter bullet while the .44 Mag is a .429" diameter bullet, so the .44 is actually a good bit smaller "around" than the .45 is.
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you really are talking about a good bit smaller around when comparing 23 thousandths of an inch. :D
 
I love 45acp. And against people, it is much more effective as a defense gun that the 44 magnum. (There's a lot more to shooting a gun and hitting your target than the ammunition). Now, having said that; the 44 magnum is a fantastic caliber for a marlin lever action rifle. It's about equal to a 30-30 at 150 yards. It's cheaper to plink with. It makes a great 2nd gun that uses the same caliber so you can share ammunition, and in a rifle it holds a lot more rounds than a 30-30 does. Also, you can use 44 specials. So, if for some reason I was only allowed to have one caliber for ALL things, it would be the 44 magnum. I'd have a 4-5" revolver and a Marlin lever action. That would take care of most everything in a survivor situation.

Fortunately we currently still live in a country where only 1 caliber is not all we are allowed. And being we can have more than one, a 44 magnum wouldn't be my choice. I drop down to 357 magnum for revolver; 45acp for semi-auto; and 32auto for pocket backups. That takes care of the entire range of purposes with the most flexibility of ammunition. Throw in a 30-30, 7mm remington magnum, and a 12 gauge pump; and you've taken care of all other scenarios, with the greatest availability of ammunition.

I love the 44 magnum, but it's really only a good caliber as an extreme. Either financially or because of lack of choices. But if you have a choice, the 45acp is better against people. You want a real big hole that tears up tissue. A 45acp with hollow points does that very well. You don't need 1400 ft per second and a 2nd hole out their back. Penetration is great. Over penetration sucks. The 45acp won't over penetrate with a hollow point.
 
When it comes to power, the .45 acp compares more with the .44 special than it does to the .44 magnum.

Here is another nice thing about revolvers, a .44 magnum will chamber and shoot .44 special ammo, it's like having two revolvers in one. You can shoot the magnum ammo when you gotta kill something big, mean, and ornery, and you can shoot the .44 special ammo when you just want to plink and the gun cycles perfectly with either one.
 
Simple

The .44 Magnum is at least twice and often 3xs as powerful as the .45 acp given similar bbl lengths. but that does not mean it is necessarily more effective. too many variables to consider. in general, the .45 is a great manstopper and target caliber. the .44 can be that as well as great hunting round and bear defense caliber. I carry both and like both. it just depends on what the mission is.

shooter429
 
What is your intended target?

#18indycolts said:
Sevens said:
the .45 auto is a .452" diameter bullet while the .44 Mag is a .429" diameter bullet, so the .44 is actually a good bit smaller "around" than the .45 is.
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you really are talking about a good bit smaller around when comparing 23 thousandths of an inch.
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Frontal area of the 45 ACP is 10.52% greater than either "44" caliber round (nominally .429"). The 44 Special power level is much closer to the 45 ACP than the 44 Magnum. The 45 would have a bigger weight advantage than the 44 except for the fact that the volume of the cartridge and the action type (semi-auto, recoil operated, usually) mandates against it.

However, if (instead of the .45ACP) you compare the 45 Colt to the 44 caliber 44 Special or 44 Magnum the difference blurs. Some claim the 45 Colt can match the power levels of the 44 Mag (given strong, modern guns, not 1950's and earlier or replicas of the old "western" style guns, but modern, very strong guns like the ones from Ruger -Blackhawk, not Vaquero- Freedom Arms, Linebaugh, Thompson-Contender etc., not to mention carbines chambered for the 45 Colt.

Go to Wikipedia and search for their articles on "45 Colt", "45 ACP", "44 Special" and "44 Magnum" for a quick introduction. Then Google "Terminal Ballistics" to go deeper into the subject.

By the way, the first thing to ask is, "What is your target?". There's social shooting (people to people), and there is hunting/animal defense (dangerous or non-dangerous game).

If you are facing 3 or 4 muggers, the .45 ACP is the choice. If facing a 300 lb Black Bear or 800 lb Grizzly or 1,000 lb Alaskan Coastal Brownie (same species as the smaller Grizzly, but better fed on our rich, Alaskan Salmon.) a 44 Mag, heavy 45 Colt, even heavier 454 Casull or .500 Smith & Wesson is barely enough. OC or UDAP (anti-Bear) spray or 45-70, or 12 gauge loaded with Brenneke slugs is better.

Lost Sheep

Just for reference, here are some power level figures I gathered. They are approximate, and in foot-pounds,

156 - 38 Special
280- 38 Specia +p
336 - 44 Special
350-500 - 45 ACP
400/500 - 45 Colt in older or replica guns
570 - 357 Magnum
960 - 45 colt in modern, stronger guns
1040 - 44 Magnum
1100 - 41 Magnum
1315 - 480 Ruger (shorter version of 475 Linebaugh, uses exactly the same bullets)
1828 - 475 Linebaugh
1925 - 454 Casull
1750 - 45-70 (for trapdoor guns)
2870 - 500 Smith
4500 - 12 gauge shotgun with a slug.

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post.

Do your own independent, confirming research when ANYONE gives you new facts on the web.

Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.

Lost Sheep


If you are really interested in the ballistics of social shooting, check out this forum
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121
or if the link doesn't work, paste this into your web browser
concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4121

Also, read up on "The Strasbourg Tests", The Works of Dr. M. L. Fackler and the "Thompson-LaGarde Tests". Fascinating.
 
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you really are talking about a good bit smaller around when comparing 23 thousandths of an inch. :D
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I do get the tongue in cheek nature of this post (and it is funny when you look at it by the numbers) but anyone who reloads knows that the difference here is actually pretty much tremendous.

Take for example the 8x57 Mauser. That's 8mm, like .323". Modern factory ammo made for the U.S. market is watered down and incredibly weak, because the original "8mm" Mauser rifles had a smaller bore. How small? It was .318". Check the difference between those two... it's like, nothing, right?

But put a modern 50,000 PSI .323" in load in a hundred and ten year old .318" bore and you might see some fireworks.

Another "close" one is typical .30 russian ammo for your garden variety SKS and AK. That's a .30 cal, right? Yeah... but it's a .312" ".30 cal", not a proper .308" .30 cal like we know it.

Stuff some SKS component bullets in to your .30-06 handloads (if you can stuff them in there) and see what happens when you jerk the trigger.

Now there's a reason why a .38 Special is actually .357" diameter, and not .38", and it's the same reason a .44 is called a .44 when it's really a .429, but it sure does add to all the confusion. ;)
 
44mag at an old 55gallon drum, I guess one of them missed and the bullet killed an old man in a park about a mile away.
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Off topic but always important; Know your target AND what is behind it!!!

BTW, unless that 55gal drum was full of sand, it wouldn't slow a .44mag down much.
 
44 vs 45

I have read several times that the reason people carry a 45 acp is because the don't make a 46...
I also hear about the power of a 44 mag

So since i don't load my own or know alot about caliber specific loads my question is what is the real difference... whats the most powerful of the 2 and what do you prefer to carry?

thanks guys
Click to expand...

I own and shoot both and in my view they are both great rounds - for their intended purpose.

The 44mag, for a pistol, is a pretty powerful round and at very close range is an adequate bear whacker of last resort. There are more powerful handgun rounds out there but I think this is probably the upper limit of what most people can effectively shoot due to recoil. For personal defense I would be concerned about the bullets going through a target at close proximity and causing colateral damage.

The 45acp I think was designed as more of a close defense round for military personnel. Shorter range, less absolute power, but I would think that big hunk of lead at a moderate velocity would be fairly effective at penetrating and creating a large wound channel in a thin skinned, lighter boned, animal.

Both good rounds but with different end uses intended.
 
I agree that the .44 mag is about the upper limit of what most people can shoot effectively, I also feel that it is the upper limit before the gun just totally misses the whole point of a handgun, a gun that can be kept in a holster to have handy in case you need a gun.
Every time I see a .500 S&W in a dealer's showcase, I think to myself, "why this enormous hogleg and not a carbine?"
 
So since i don't load my own or know alot about caliber specific loads my question is what is the real difference...
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Yours is a common misconception.

There's far more to a cartridge than mere bullet diameter. You absolutely cannot disregard case length. A 9x19mm (Luger) and a 9x57mm Mauser both have approximately nine millimeter diameter bullets. The 9x57mm Mauser rifle cartridge has a case three times longer than a 9x19mm case (and bigger in diameter up to the neck as well). That holds a LOT more powder of whatever kind, producing a LOT more pressure and a LOT more velocity, and with a LOT heavier bullet. Guess which one has a better record on big game?

There'd be WAY more difference in effectiveness between a .44 Bulldog and a .44 Special than between a .45 Colt and a hypothetical .46 Colt of identical length.

If this kind of thing interests you, buy yourself a copy of "Cartridges of the World". I've been buying the various editions since I was in highschool in the '70s. You'll learn a lot.
 
Every time I see a .500 S&W in a dealer's showcase, I think to myself, "why this enormous hogleg and not a carbine?"
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I'll give you one excellent reason. In Ohio, it is against the game laws to hunt deer with a centerfire rifle of any kind. It's perfectly legal to hunt with a centerfire handgun, .357 or bigger.

If you want to hunt deer in Ohio with a modern firearm, and you don't like shotguns, you're hunting with a handgun or not at all.

That having been said, something like a Remington Rolling Block or a Trapdoor Springfield carbine in .500 S&W would at least be amusing for short range deer hunting.
 
When people try to compare calibers; and then ask which one is more powerful; the original question winds up going out the window. Which one is more powerful is NEVER important and shouldn't even be asked. If having the most powerful caliber was actually important, we'd have mini-bazookas or pocket versions of RPG.

In life, as in everything, there is an invisible "Bell Curve" for all situations. On the far let is zero. It gradually increases and finds it's peak in the middle and holds there. Then if you continue further, it continues back downward back to zero. Even with guns, there is a bell curve.

The sweet spot on the bell curve, is the highest level obviously. But that "Highest Point on the Bell Curve" is a variable that is different for each person. However, for maximum damage to a person (After all, that is what we are shooting and the topic of discussion); the laws of physics state that:
1) The larger the wound hole, the more damage it will cause.
2) The more the projectile expands once inside (The purpose of a hollow point), the more damage it will cause.
3) The more tissue that is ripped apart (Hollow point compared to FMJ) the more blood loss and damage it will cause.

So, the ultimate projectile would be one that created a large entrance hole; expanded to twice it's original size or more; and ripped and tore everything in it's path as it went through causing the ultimate in blood loss; and eventually BARELY exited the target to allow more blood loss with endangering any unintended target.

Now, which caliber on the Bell Curve reaches the peak. Well, you can't just choose a caliber. The reason is because some caliber might be too much for a person to be able to control when shooting. Some might require a larger gun that can be concealed. Some cartridges might only be available in revolver or in semi-auto and the shooter might have a legitimate preference for one or the other. But most of all, the answer of the "Best Caliber" isn't about caliber anyway. It's about ammunition. A basic no name hollow point with probably do more damage than a well know brand FMJ. However; where on the "Bell Curve" does the hollow point clog, not expand, become ineffective because of size of the bullete, etc...? I.e. A 32 auto fired with 100% accuracy by the 4ft 5inch woman, with 7 rounds of FMJ right to the chest of the bad guy is MORE EFFECTIVE than maybe 1 or maybe 2 rounds of 44 magnum hollow points; assuming she hit her target.

So stop these irrelevant questions about which caliber is better. Only you can decide which one is best for you. That choice should be based on a number of factors such as; how much you can afford, do you want to carry/conceal it, is it only for home or to carry, do you have children that could accidentally touch it, how powerful of a caliber can you shoot, availability of ammunitions, etc... Only YOU can answer these answers. For some people, the 44 magnum is the BEST caliber. For some, it's the 45 acp. Mind you, there's a lot of difference between these two. One is bigger and slower. One is smaller but faster. However, when you get to 9mm/380/9x18/40sw, you start to see a lot less differences. Those simply become a matter of preference. Anyone who says a 40 is BETTER than a 9mm or the other way around, has absolutely no idea what they are saying. In the "Middle Range" of calibers, there is very little difference. Your selection should just go back to cost, preference, availability of ammo (Take the 9mm); what you like, etc... Don't get me wrong; I'm not a big fan of the 9mm or many of the middle calibers. Never have been. However, with modern ammunition, there is very little difference. Some will say the 40 is the best of both worlds. The magazine capacity of a 9mm with the "Knock Down power" of a 45acp. No, it's not. But again, that "Bell Curve" is a personal choice. Part of the curve may include a magazine that holds 15 rounds. That would eliminate most 45acp from a person's choice.

So, when choosing a caliber, try and:
1) Largest physical caliber that you can get and can handle
2) Ammunition that can make that caliber effectively even bigger
3) Ammunition that has excellent penetration but not necessarily over penetration.
4) And have this in a gun you can COMFORTABLY shoot, carry, and afford.

For some, it could be a 44 mag. For some, a 45acp. Others, a 40S&W, 9mm, 380acp, or 32 auto. And for some; because cost isn't as big of an issue; they will realize that except for the 44 magnum being the only real "all in one" caliber to do just about everything if you were only allowed to own just 1 gun; then you would choose possibly 2 or 3 guns. Obviously, if the gun is ONLY for carrying purposes because home is a very secure environment with gated/guarded apartments; then a 44mag or 45acp is probably overkill, and a 32/380 might be the better choice for some. Again, the choices are different for each person. So asking which one is better, more powerful, etc... are irrelevant questions. The answer is: "It depends". Start with what you want the gun for. Then determine how you will care/use it. Then determine what you can afford. Then choose the caliber. Then choose the ammunition. And even though this is a process, the AMMUNITION is the most important factor. A hollowpoint ISN'T ALWAYS the best ammunition. Winter months, thick clothing, on the street, shooting a 32acp/380acp pocket gun for a smaller person: Shoot FMJ.
 
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