44 Special vs. 357 Magnum

44 AMP said:
Not really. When you are pushing big bore revolvers to the safe working limits of the gun, they all come out about the same. Measurable differences, sure, but significant ones, not so much. It is the gun used that is the primary limiting factor.

Ruger Blackhawks get a bit tricksy to cover with blanket statements because over the years Ruger has done a couple different sized frames under the name "Blackhawk", and Vaquero.

Top end .45 Colt loads, made to be fired in the New Model Blackhawk (large frame gun) are ok in the Vaquero (original) but too much for the "New Vaquero".

I am not very familiar with the "flattops" Blackhawks, but I expect you could safely increase the .44 Special in one, well beyond the somewhat anemic factory ammo. I wouldn't recommend trying to make a magnum out of it, though.
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Well, we're not talking about the New Vaquero here, we're talking about the Blackhawk and I never said to try making the .44 Special Blackhawk into a Magnum, I said you can load it hotter, just like the .45 Colt Blackhawks usually are.

AFAIK, there is not much strength different between the flattops and regular Blackhawks and Chat GPT is telling me the same thing along with the .44 Special Blackhawks being capable of handling up to 25K PSI, including the "heavy Keith load."

Not advocating it be loaded that hot, just the facts.

And truth be told, having never been much of a .44 fan, this topic and the strength of the .44 Blackhawk has started to get me interested. The only issue is Taurus makes a 5 shot .44 Mag for less and that will handle a steady diet of heavy Kieth loads forever and be smaller, lighter and have a double action ability.
 
I am not very familiar with the "flattops" Blackhawks, but I expect you could safely increase the .44 Special in one, well beyond the somewhat anemic factory ammo. I wouldn't recommend trying to make a magnum out of it, though.
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The .44 Special flattops are on the medium frame just like the New Vaquero. No different except for the top strap :) . Yes they can easily be loaded 'hotter' than anemic factory .44 Special loads. Remember the .45 Colt flattop (and New Vaquero) is capable of at least 23K psi loads (.45 ACP certified). So when you go down to .429 from .452 ... You can see there is more wiggle room. Just an FYI. But yes, buy a Magnum (large frame) if you really want to shoot Magnum level loads. Stick to standard to 'warm' .44 Special loads in the medium frame (BH flattop or New Vaquero).
 
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Hmmm... I see it as a wash personally. I am still kind of a "start with a bigger hole" guy... but I think you would be fine with either caliber. For me it would come down to the gun i liked best honestly.
 
My old Lyman manual shows a few loads in .44 Special that break 1,000fps with a 240-250ish bullet from a 5.5" Colt SAA.

If they did it then, you can do it now. If you can do it in a Colt, you can do it in a Ruger.

If you were limited to factory ammo, I would choose the .357 (though not the exact one you're looking at).

You handload. Choose the GUN you like better. The rest will follow.
 
If I interpret the OP’s post correctly, he already has the two guns he mentioned. He’s not looking for recommendations for other pistols, just which one he already has, to carry.
 
I got 7 S&W .357s, 2 S&W 44specials and 3 S&Ws & Colt 45. I can’t make up my mind between 44sp & 45Colt but definitely better choice than 357 in my opinion. I shot cast in everything and just duplication of original loads for velocity. DA is no advantage to me only shoot SA. I have taken deer with 44Sp & 45Colt and shots at 0 to 50yds are almost always through & through. My guns are 6” & 5.5” for Colt, much more pleasant on both ears and recoil.
 
Glad this generated so much discussion, but I guess I should provide "the rest of the story". I bought the GP-100 because I was interested in the question, "Does the 357 Sig really match the 357 Mag from a 4" revolver?" Yes! And I proved this to myself with a Sig 226 that is probably my favorite bottom feeder. Not only that, but the Ruger carries nicely in a high ride forward cant holster. The 44 I bought on a whim when I saw it on GB for a decent price. It rides in an El Paso Saddlery cowboy rig. Fairly comfortable also.

Loads...While the 125 JHP is the mankiller, in the woods I carry 158 XTP or GDHP at 1,300 fps. Still working on the 44, but for this medium frame BH, I stop a little short of the "Skeeter" load, with a 240 Hunters Supply at 936 and various 200s a bit over 1,000. If I need more, I do have a 7 1/2" BH 45 that runs thermonuclear loads at the expense of my middle finger knuckle. If I need more than that, I have a Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger.

To me, "general purpose" means a pistol to take a target of opportunity (coyote?), defend myself, or just make noise when I break my ankle on the mountain. If I was worried about bipedal varmints, I'd take one of my bottom feeders. If bears (or more likely moose out West) I'd take one of the cannons.

I think I'll put the 357 on the block.
 
ligonierbill said:
I'm not much of a pistoleer, but sometimes I carry a general purpose revolver in the woods. (Since I grew up in Pennsylvania and hunt there, it has to be a revolver.) The competitors are a Ruger Blackhawk "Flattop" 5 1/2" 44 Special and a Ruger GP-100 4" 357 Magnum. The 357 is more powerful by a third, but the Flattop sends a bigger bullet. It's also lighter and handier. I'm leaning towards the 44, but that's the debate. I should mention that I always shoot the GP-100 single action, so that advantage is mute.

What do you think?
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Did you say that semi auto pistols are illegal in the woods of Pennsylvania?
 
this is just a question from an non-pistol guy, is there a good reason to go 44spl rather than 44mag and shoot 44spl ammo in the magnum ?
 
georgehwbush said:
this is just a question from an non-pistol guy, is there a good reason to go 44spl rather than 44mag and shoot 44spl ammo in the magnum ?
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Yes.

The .44 Mag handgun is always bigger and heavier.

Shooting the shorter case in the longer chamber can cause some problems if careful cleaning is not done.

The extra power of the .44 Magnum is not worth choosing it over the Special when the Special is handloaded to max.
 
The Verminator said:
The .44 Mag handgun is always bigger and heavier.
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What's the difference in weight when built on the same frame?


The Verminator said:
Shooting the shorter case in the longer chamber can cause some problems if careful cleaning is not done.
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It's just a cleaning issue, and even if the chamber is dirty it doesn't mean you can't always get a 44 Mag seated.


The Verminator said:
The extra power of the .44 Magnum is not worth choosing it over the Special when the Special is handloaded to max.
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There's only so much you can get from a max pressure of 15,500 psi (44 Special) compared to a max pressure of 36,000 psi (44 Magnum).
 
GP revolver

For me, a 4" bbl carries much easier then anything longer. It depends on the holster to a large degree of course. I think my Single Six is 5-1/2" , but it is a bit more svelte than a Blackhawk. None the less, it rides in a crossdraw flap holster, butt forward on my off side. The sleek Six, and both the 6" N-frames I've had over the years, never carried well for me on strong side hip holsters.

For a number of years, I carried a 4" Security Six as a GP woods gun, loaded with 158 gr LSWC and enough Unique to get an honest 1000 fps. I still use that load in my 4-5/8" Blackhawk, which rides in GI style aviator holster when I select that revolver to wander about.
 
I used to have several 44spl’s and always thought it was one of the mildest big bore calibers to shoot. My only complaint was that CCI unlike in the 38/357 calibers only offered their shot shells in the magnum .44. I got around this by getting some CCI capsules and rolling my own 44spl shot shells. Very effective on copperheads, N frame 44spl’s are still some of my favorite revolver’s, so graceful and well balanced.
 
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