44 Magnum / regular primers ok?

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BondoBob

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I need to make up some 44 Magnums with 700x. I have been using Trailboss with regular (non-magnum) primers and they worked fine. But the loads are too tame.

Will 700x or ignite properly with regular large pistol primers? Or will I really need to get Magnum large pistol primers? I had heard that if the case fill is adequate you can get by with regular primers. Is that true?
 
I use regular Fed large pistol primers with medium to fast rate powders in 44 mag no problem, unless you try too light a load. Pretty sure you only need mag primers with most the slowest powders, and a sometimes a heavy crimp can help with the faster powders in large cases.
 
I think magnum primers are mainly needed for very slow pistol powders. You should be fine with regular primers with 700x or Blue Dot or Unique. 800x is a larger flake slower burning powder that doesn't meter as well but is better for magnum loads and can also be lit with standard primer.
 
But the loads are too tame.
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700x is a fairly quick powder suited for producing light to mid range loads in .44 Magnum. It is NOT suited for heavy magnum loads. Standard primers are fine. Magnum primers are a waste of magnum primers.
 
"But the loads are too tame."

You need to change powders - H110 comes to mind -and re-test your assessment of "tame."
 
Given that 700x is ranked 15, while trail boss is ranked 27 on one burn chart I was just looking at..... Your going backwards. You need at least a medium burn powder like Unique (rank 45) or True Blue (58), or Power Pistol (49) to up your 'power'. No magnum primer needed for any of these powders. If you want to experience max recoil, then 2400 (76, standard primer), H110/W296 (87 Magnum primer needed) will get you there. I find shooting 10g of Unique under 240g SWC a good combination. 8.5g of Unique under the 240g SWC will duplicate the 'Skeeter' .44 Special Load which is quite a bit more than your Trail Boss loads. I am not into elbow/wrist/knuckle hurting territory, so I stay away from 'max loads'. I like to enjoy my outings...


FYI, which primer used is never about the cartridge.... it is the powder being used. There is only handful of powders where a magnum primer 'should' be used.
 
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Thanks for all the great info. According to that video we can use magnum and small rifle primers in place of small. That should help with the primer shortage.
 
^^Yes, but in the .44 mag you'll not be using SR, SRM or SR primers. You'll need Large Pistol or Large Pistol Mag, depending on the powder used.
 
The use of 700 x in 44 mag will probably make nice plinking loads at lower velocities. The powder is much too fast for true magnum velocities.

700-x is my go to plinking powder for pistols. I routinely load LPP 45 acp loads with 700 x. So, to answer your question as to whether LPP will ignite 700 x, the answer is definitely "yes".

Bayou
 
While that video is suggestive, this topic can be complex. First, different primer makers don't use the same strategies in making magnum vs. standard primers. Some just use larger quantities of the same priming mix in both while others use a standard priming mix quantity with added fuel substances to increase gas output. As a result, the testing done with one brand and size of primer can't be counted on to be universally applicable. Second, you don't want to extrapolate from 9mm to any other cartridge. A very common event in short pistol cases is the primer unseating the bullet ahead of the powder burn getting well underway, resulting in more burning space. QuickLOAD's author points out that magnum primers can actually get lower velocities in some instances. Bullet unseating is a common cause of that in small cases (talk to anyone who has tried various primers in the 22 Hornet for a strong illustration of this issue). In the larger powder space of a 44 Mag, or other long pistol cartridges, that is not normally something that happens.

While it is very unlikely you would damage a gun with a primer swap, take them like any other variation in a load, reduce charge and work back up. Having a chronograph is really useful for this as you can normally just work back up to the same average velocity you got from the other primer.
 
Elmer Keith had fewer choices and was mostly a Hercules loader, Bullseye, Unique, and 2400 as indicated by caliber and desired velocity. He did not, would not, use Magnum primers even for 2400.

As I have said, I saw no difference in velocity by primer in my usual 9mm load; except that Remington 1 1/2 was a LITTLE faster than the other six types and brands.

We are warned not to use large rifle primers in handgun ammunition; that they are taller than large pistol primers and the resulting high primers will risk slam fire in an automatic and drag on cylinder rotation in a revolver. And not fire at all due to thick cups.

I tried that, too. I applied a rifle primer pocket uniformer to some .45 ACP brass, seated WLR in half, FedLR in the others. They seated flush and all fired in my Caspian 1911 with 19 lb mainspring. A lot of labor but if that was all you had and you wanted to shoot some, it would be worth a look. Unlike 9mm, I had seen a difference between standard and magnum large pistol primers, so I would load well down if pushed to such measures.
 
Elmer Keath was a tough guy when it came to extra heavy pistol loads back 50> long years ago. I would not be starting off with his loads for a beginner.

Make sure you go over all your cases well for size shape and length. I suggest picking up primer pocket uniformed so your primers seat fully... Length is important for a consistent roll crimp. H-110 works well for me in my 10 1/2" Ruger Blackhawk and Ruger 77/44 bolt gun. Bullets from 200gr. to 240gr. work well also for the above weapons. Use 44 Mag. Data from several manuals. I suggest primers from Rem. Win. CCI in Large pistol or Mag. as the manuals suggest. For plinking if you can find some copper plated lead bullets are my favorite.

Of course work up your loads.
 
I forgot to mention, which primer you choose is usually the one that gives you the most consistent velocity. That's based on the assumption consistent velocity is reporting consistent ignition. You don't normally need to worry about consistent velocity for the purposes of bullet drop difference at handgun ranges, but inconsistent ignition can be accompanied by small delays that have the same effect as lock-time variations, tending to open groups up by allowing the muzzle more or less time to move before the bullet gets out. In theory, if you have absolutely perfect trigger control and follow-through and a perfectly stable position, that doesn't matter. But how often do we get perfect in the real world?
 
"But how often do we get perfect in the real world?"

I would have to opine, every time I hit the target in an appropriate spot, regardless of group size.
 
hdbiker said:
I use Winchester Large Pistol Primers, made for both standard and magnum loads. hdbiker
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This. And there are better powders than the 700x and 800x powders for 44 mag. They work. But tend to not only drop a bit poorly- they also tend to fly around and make more of a mess while loading IMO.


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