44 magnum loads

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Bucksnort1

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Sometime last year, I posted a thread asking for recipes for 245 grain plated bullets for 44 mag. The advice I received was to load as if they are 240 grain lead bullets.

I looked through my, "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .44 Magnum" pamphlet and found two recipes for Lyman all lead 245 grain bullets. I know nothing about Lyman lead bullets other than I know what linotype lead is. The description for one of these bullets is, 245 grain, linotype #429421. The other is a 245 grain linotype #429244. There is a drawing of each bullet which indicates there is a difference in the two bullets.

There are recipes for various powders but the charge amounts, for the same powder, are different for each bullet. For example the 421 bullet has a starting charge of 9.8 grains of Unique; whereas, the starting charge for the 244 bullet is 8.9 grains of Unique.

My question is, which of these two bullet types with their respective recipes should I use for my 245 grain plated bullets?
 
Those starting loads are higher than they have to be. If you are looking for mild, but accurate loads, you could start at 7.0 grains of Unique. Is this for a revolver?
 
You've listed Unique, but do you have other powders to choose from?

I have Lyman's 49th and have a selection of powders for the #429421 bullet.
 
This is for a revolver.

There are nine powders listed for the two bullet styles of which I have three, Blue Dot, Unique and 2400.

I'm not necessarily looking for a mild load.

I'm sure you are familiar with these pamphlets or whatever they are called. It's the ones that consolidate different bullet and powder manufacturers. My pamphlet does not indicate which Lyman loading manual from which they copied this information.

So, back to my original question. Is it safe to use the loading data for both types of bullets for my plated 245 grain, semi-wad cutter bullets?

This posting does not appear in the opening page of the hand loading section. I have to search under 44 magnum to find it. What's up with that?
 
From Lyman's 49th (4" test barrel)

For Blue Dot:
Start: 14.5 Max: 16.0 (FPS: 1034-1194)

Unique:
Start: 9.8 Max: 13.0 (FPS: 912-1174)

2400:
Start: 18.5 Max: 20.6 (FPS: 1087-1248)

I'm not an expert but given that all my loads have had to be developed by taking bits of information for this load and that and somehow coming up with serviceable loads, I would say that, yes, you can use lead cast data for your plated bullets. I have and it seems to have worked adequately.

Just perhaps don't take them as "gospel" and give credence to any signs of over-pressureas you get toward the listed max. Ultimately, though, you'll have to use your judgment on how closely you can follow those charge weights.
 
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I found this note in my reloading notebook...It`s a few years old but I still refer to it from time to time.

Many of you will remember Skeeter Skelton when he wrote for shooting times
magazine back in the 70`s and 80`s

Skeeters favorite load for his 44 mag was 21.0 / 2400 from the 429421 lyman mold it gave him about 1350 fps . He also like 7.5 Unique/950 fps for target loads.I didn`t note which primer; but suspect Magnum primer in the 2400 load and std primer with Unique.

I also have some other notes:

John Haviland fav. 20.0 / 2400... 1368 fps
Brian Pierce 21.0 / 2400...1375 fps
Elmer Keith 22.0 2400...1400 fps

I personally use 19.5 2400 in my Ruger super Blackhawk.. 5.5" bbl

Hope this helps
 
The Lyman 429421 is the Keith type, plain based SWC. The Lyman 429244 is a Ray Thompson gas checked design SWC. Lyman has always recommended linotype alloy for the magnum loads, but it is not required.....and especially when using a gas checked bullet.

A major concern when using data from a jacketed design of equal weight is seating depth.....how much of that powder space is being used up by the bullet. That can be determined by measuring, if you have both bullets.

But, the safest way to work up a load is FROM BELOW.

After 45 years of loading and experimenting with the .44 magnum, I've settled on BlueDot for midrange loads and H-110/WW296, Lil'Gun, and WC820 for full power. Believe me, I've tried about every powder available before settling on BlueDot.

I suggest you start at 14 grains of BlueDot. I've gone slightly higher, but that seems to be my sweet spot.
 
Like 454PB says, a #429244 produces a 255 grain SWC gas check bullet, not a 245 grain.
"...load as if they are 240 grain lead bullets..." Yep. Five grains just doesn't make much difference. My old Lyman book gives #429244 as a 250 grain SWC using gas checks. Unique load is 7.0(819fps) to 11.0(1200fps).
 
I'm having a bit of a problem with the recipe called for in the reloading pamphlet I mentioned earlier. For the 429421 Lyman, 245 grain linotype bullet, the maximum length is stated as 1.710". This is too long for the cylinder on my revolver by about .0625". The length of my 245 grain, plated bullet is .687". The length of an all lead, 240 grain bullet is slightly longer. Roughly in the middle of the plated bullet and the all lead bullet is what looks like a very narrow cannelure. If I compare the two bullets, the cannelures are in alignment with each other. I'm using 11 grains of Unique, which is between the min and max per the recipe. Should I seat the plated bullet to the cannelure?

What up, dudes?
 
A picture would be helpful.

Sounds like you're shooting a S&W. You need a good crimp, if that means seating so the crimp is over the front of the first driving band, then you have to reduce the charge because you have reduced the case capacity.

If there is a crimp cannelure available that allows a longer length, use it.

The important fact is that the load has to be worked up from below once a seating depth has been chosen, you can't just dive in with a charge weight from a loading manual. A powder as fast burning as Unique can bite you fast.
 
I'm having a bit of a problem with the recipe called for in the reloading pamphlet I mentioned earlier. For the 429421 Lyman, 245 grain linotype bullet, the maximum length is stated as 1.710". This is too long for the cylinder on my revolver by about .0625". The length of my 245 grain, plated bullet is .687". The length of an all lead, 240 grain bullet is slightly longer. Roughly in the middle of the plated bullet and the all lead bullet is what looks like a very narrow cannelure. If I compare the two bullets, the cannelures are in alignment with each other. I'm using 11 grains of Unique, which is between the min and max per the recipe. Should I seat the plated bullet to the cannelure?

What up, dudes?
Click to expand...

If one of those bullets will not pass through the throats with a little free hand coaxing, then either the throats are too tight for lead, or the bullets are oversize for lead. Lyman says their bullets were sized to .429 for load development. The spec allows up to .432, but it's the gun's throat diameter that will rule the day. That forward driving band, if too large in diameter or if distorted in crimp, will stop the bullet from fully chambering.
 
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454PB, Sorry but this revolver is not as high class as a Smith. It is a Taurus.

REAL GUN, I'm not having a problem getting the loaded round into the cylinder. I will perform your test. You mention lead. This is a plated bullet.
 
Real Gun,

I'll get a length for you later but I think this is the problem. I will use a different recipe. What I find interesting is the Lyman #429244, also in 245 grains, calls for a overall length of 1.610" which will fit in my gun nicely. It's the same weight but a different style. I don't use bullets requiring gas checks and I don't know much about them but the Lyman book recommends a gas check with the 244 bullet. This may have something to do with the 1.610".
 
I've shot plated bullets a bit in 44 Mag. I never got good results with full house magnum loads, not very accurate. I always got better results with either hard cast lead, gas check, or jacketed bullets.

If I throttled them back to mid range loads they did quite well.
 
Try dropping back to 10.0gr of Unique and seating to fit the cylinder. 10.0 gr of Unique was my sweet spot for several different cartridges.
 
Real Gun, but the Lyman book calls for 1.710" for this load. I wonder if this is a typo. I see 1.610" for other recipes and I think 1.645" for others. I'm going to Cabela's, this morning, for coffee with two reloading buddies. I will see if there are any reloading books others have opened then I will look for 44 mag lengths.

And speaking of rifle and handgun cartridge lengths, my first reloading book, Speer #11, doesn't have COAL for various recipes. When I began loading 38/357, I used the COAL I found on line. I've not had any problems but now I think the Speer book is worthless without COALs.

Tomorrow, a friend is coming to help load some 44 mag rounds for his Ruger Red Hawk. I asked him to bring his Ruger so I can measure the cylinder then compare to my Taurus.
 
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