.44 Magnum for law enforcement

[44 AMP]

For some time after its introduction, Remington was the only factory making .41 Remington Magnum ammunition.

The same thing happened with the .44 Remington Magnum. Guns from S&W, and Ruger (to start with) ammo only from Remington, until the other ammo makers decide that (a) it will be profitable, and (b) tool up to make the ammo.

Many cartridges introduced by Remington have become "crossover" hits, now made by many, if not all major makers. Some have not, and remain Remington only products. (rifle rounds particularly).

 

[ATN082268]

I'm curious...

I noticed that 3 people, as of this writing, consider a .44 Magnum 240-300 grain hollow point bullet fired from a 6 inch barrel, as underpowered (voted #1 on the poll) for general law enforcement use. I wonder what they consider as adequate?

 

[natman]

Remington (the only ammo maker at the time) focused on the magnum load, and did not produce any real quantity of the "police" load, until well after virtually all interested police agencies had finished their testing (with magnum ammo) and found the .41 Mag unsuitable.

Gee, you mean that Remington completely misread the market and by the time they realized what was going on the opportunity window had closed and a promising cartridge died out?

How many times has that happened!

They couldn't market a bucket of water to a man whose pants were on fire.

 

[JERRYS.]

the S&W model 24 was a great wheely for cops. the .44spl in a good loading is tops as well. .44mag is too much for anything other than bears.

If relegated to a revolver, id rather have an N frame .44 loaded with good specials than an L frame .357 loaded with magnums.

 

[Model12Win]

The .44 special is also less "flashy" and loud than a .357 magnum. It does the same job equally well if not better than the magnum but won't wreck your hearing or blind you in low light.

There's no replacement for displacement, and when all things are equal, bigger bullets tend to work better. The .357 is an overdramatic cartridge where a small lightweight bullet is driven to excessive speeds to try to overcome it's mass. The big .44 will stop them just as well but in a much more pleasant manner. Also, a .44 starts out as big as a .357/.38 expanded anyway, so choosing a good .44 special hollow point is just icing on the cake, though frankly a Keith profile cast lead bullet would be equally useful.

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

I'm one of the three who rated it at "1".

Not because it's underpowered, but because I feel that the round is not suitable for police work for the reasons stated already (over penetration endangering passers-by, recoil that is much more difficult to manage for quick and accurate follow-up shots). And I think that the platform that 95% of 44mag come in are unwieldy and with much more limited capacity, it make those unsuitable for police work.

I'm not a LEO but know a few and have some family who are. Doing what they do now as they engage with today's criminal, they need lightweight, rapid fire on target, and higher capacity the vast majority of the time. If we are honest with ourselves, it's not hard to see that these are things in which the 44mag and the platforms it is offered in really do not perform well.

FTR: I own two 44mag chambered S&W revolvers. I love the cartridge and the platforms for what I do.

 

[Nanuk]

I have 4 - 44 mags have been using them for 30 years and am a huge fan of the caliber. Changing bullets allows you to tailor it for anything from plinking to hunting large dangerous game.

I have also been in LE for over 30 years and carried a revolver for over 20 years.

I do not think a 44 magnum is a good general issue revolver. It recoils too much for most shooters. I carry my S&W 69 loaded with 180 grain PMC JHP's. It is a full power load that uses the Remington bullet. This means that the bullet fragments to some extent which as a self defense cartridge I see as a positive as the bullet still maintains enough mass to penetrate adequately. I think that a 6" 44 is too cumbersome, but the model 69 balances just like a 357 L frame.

I shoot mine in IDPA with my magnum loads. I will never win but it sure is fun.

 

[TXAZ]

If every cop was sure shot Dirty Harry, it clearly would be the weapon of choice.
But it's not. The last thing I want to see is a large PD giving high power, hard to shoot guns to cops who don't practice.

 

[JERRYS.]

The last thing I want to see is a large PD giving high power, hard to shoot guns to cops who don't practice.

because 6 missed shots before a reload is worse that 15 missed shots before a reload.

 

[Nanuk]

because 6 missed shots before a reload is worse that 15 missed shots before a reload.

I hear that all the time from the Hicap crowd, the extra rounds are for when you miss.

I was shooting PPC on the Dept Pistol team during the beginning of the rush to 9mm's in the mid 80's. I was a poor young cop with a baby so I used my duty gun a 6" no dash 686. The only time I ever felt that I wanted a semi auto was in the Border Patrol chasing bandits in the canyons on the border at night.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Empirically, no major department issues such and those that did with the 41 mags ditched them.

Thus, the question is answered. The answer is NO.

 

[seeker_two]

On the OP's scale, I'd give it a 12. New cops these days can't handle guns like the .44 Magnum. If they have any shooting experience, it's mainly in 9mm. Even the .40S&W seems intimidating to many of them.

Sadly, the days of big-bore revolvers in law enforcement are over. In some cities, I'm surprised that the politicians let the cops have guns at all.....cops other than the politicians' bodyguards, of course.

 

[SmokinTom]

The 41 Magnum was at one time going to be the new Police carry weapon. Well guess what happened to that idea.

 

[JERRYS.]

The 41 Magnum was at one time going to be the new Police carry weapon. Well guess what happened to that idea.

those ideas were pushed by people that did not have the capacity to envision the criminal element carrying anything other than an RG .22 or a stolen .32 hand ejector.

anytime a new gun or technology becomes available to the cops, the general public and especially criminals will have it first.

 

[Sarge]

It's easy for today's tribe to judge the lawmen of 30+ years ago by today's standards, which have fostered the notion that the 40 has unmanageable recoil & the 9mm HP is the full equal of anything fielded previously.

I am living proof that you don't have to be Jerry Miculek to shoot possibles on a fairly challenging qualifications with a 4" Model 29 S&W stoked with 210 grain Silvertips or equivalent loads.

 

[Nanuk]

It's easy for today's tribe to judge the lawmen of 30+ years ago by today's standards, which have fostered the notion that the 40 has unmanageable recoil & the 9mm HP is the full equal of anything fielded previously.

I am living proof that you don't have to be Jerry Miculek to shoot possibles on a fairly challenging qualifications with a 4" Model 29 S&W stoked with 210 grain Silvertips or equivalent loads.
__________________

You and me.

 

[Hal]

I noticed that 3 people, as of this writing, consider a .44 Magnum 240-300 grain hollow point bullet fired from a 6 inch barrel, as underpowered (voted #1 on the poll) for general law enforcement use. I wonder what they consider as adequate?

I believe I tried to explain that in my first post in this thread.
For a law enforcement round, the .44 Rem Mag is (IMHO) at cross purposes with the job at hand.
Law enforcement has to keep in the fight until it's all over.
They can't "cut and run" as we non-law enforcement people can.

As an individual round, the .44 Rem Mag has a lot of "power".
As a part of a total "firepower package or system", a 9mm Luger +P has a lot more to offer.
15 rounds in the gun, plus one in the chamber, plus at least one spare magazine offers a huge advantage in "firepower".

 

[Nanuk]

As an individual round, the .44 Rem Mag has a lot of "power".
As a part of a total "firepower package or system", a 9mm Luger +P has a lot more to offer.
15 rounds in the gun, plus one in the chamber, plus at least one spare magazine offers a huge advantage in "firepower".

If you make your shots count you do not need firepower outside of a military engagement. When I started LE it was preached to use "make your shots count" and "you only have 6". We also received training to allow us to do just that.

 

[Sarge]

I don't advocate the 44 Mag as a general issue item. For cops working rural areas intersected by a long stretch of Interstate, they can be a real comfort. I rarely carried a carbine when I was wearing a Model 29.

I switched the Magnum Silvertips out for 44 Specials, either Federal's 200 grain LSWCHP or CCI's 200 grain Gold Dot, on the regular occasion a particular judge insisted I handle security for or bailiff one of his trials. He was fully aware of what I carried and watched me kill a suspected rabid dog at about 60 yards with a Mag Silvertip, that showed up at one of his friend's rural property one afternoon.

I shoot a lot I've always pushed myself to shoot really well, particularly with duty or carry guns. I shot that 44 a lot and killed a half dozen deer with it. Handling duty size 44 Mags requires some hand strength, the ability to ignore recoil and the determination to push your limits and learn to do it all fast.

Not everybody has the desire or determination to do that. I was 30 years old and bull strong when I carried a 44. I wasn't carrying one when I retired from a municipality at 59. If something works better for you, or your agency, that's great- by all means use it.

 

[Hal]

If you make your shots count you do not need firepower outside of a military engagement.

While I agree with you 100% - - you can't always script your next encounter.

It's been within my lifetime (I'm 64) that "partners" went away.
Granted - A LEO can always sit tight until backup arrives, but, a lot can go down in that time.

A partner and/or backup brought more "firepower".

Still ---I recall a story I read back in the late 1970's in one of the gun rags about a cop in Florida that happened on a group of drug dealers armed with MAC -10's. He escaped, but, it was touch and go.
His letter to the editors was more of a plea to get rid of the revolvers and at the very least, give them some kind of chance of meeting "fire with fire".

Not too many years after that, the Cleveland Police Department pleaded with the public to write letters to the Cleveland City Council to get rid of their revolvers and go with a 9mm.
I was more than happy to pitch in on that.