44 Magnum for battle?

  • Thread starter Thread starter PreserveFreedom
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Hey, I did say I'd choose the .223 semiauto for human defense.

But if a bear decides to have you for dinner, which do you want, .223 55 grain pills or .44 magnum 300 grain hardcast moving at 1,500 fps?

I'll take the .44 lever for that task. ;) That's where momentum, weight, and power come into play...

(Just disputing that the .223 has "more oomph at all ranges")

:)
 
If the quest is for velocity and energy

Why not the 220 Swift? It has more energy and velocity than the .223.
Or how about pushing a 17 caliber tungsten (50 grains) at over 4000 fps?
Is there not diminishing benefit or effect when tiny masses are propelled at enormous velocities in the atmosphere - simply because of wind and drag? OTOH, a loose screw at orbital speeds (26,000 fps) in space could very well go through the equivalent of a Lincoln towncar end-to-end including the engine block - ergo the very real danger of space junk.
 
Kilgore,

Actually, SS109 AP type ammo might be good against a bear. You'd be virtually guaranteed of getting penetration deep enough into the chest to reach lungs and heart, which is less sure with .44 Mag., plus you'd have a greater ability to get through the skull.
 
Alright, who wants to donate their Towncar for some penetration tests?

AR-10, I fail to see how factory 44 mag ammo and reloads are apples to oranges in comparison. Unless you were referring to the 7.62 nato that you quote prices on. In that case, and price, I too would go with the 7.62. But of course, I load the 7.62 also.

The ammo availability is the key here. Plus they dont make the Mag carbine. So in reality, I'd have either the 223 or 308

I wouldnt feel too comfortable facing off with a bear with a 223, no matter how AP it was. I have my doubts about the 44 mag being "less sure" to penetrate a bear skull than a 223 also.

We could sit here and wonder and what if it for weeks and still wouldnt know for sure unless we actually did some penetration tests. I do have some 1/4" and 3/8" plate steel, maybe I'll just see how good my 300 grainers really are, and post the results. I dont have any ss109's and cant find em' either.

The 44 Mag battle rifle is just a fantasy and no more. The real deal dictates nato calibers for all the reasons we already know.
 
Ok, Mike. What we have here are two opinions that are going to have to continue to differ. :D

Kilgor
 
I have shot 44 magnums through the trunk of a car and was able to find the holes through the trunk, back seat, front seat and into the dashboard/firewall. I do not know whether they entered the engine compartment or not, I was too lazy to remove the engine to see. Did this to several cars at a junkyard when 44 mag was new and I was looking to be impressed. I have also shot the 44 through both sides of a pickup truck bed. :)
 
The 44mag has one major disadvantage against the 223, penetration of body armor. The 223 with penetrate any body armor through Threat III while the 44mag will be stopped by Threat II.
 
I have a Marlin 1894P. My max load with a hard cast 240 gr. LSWC over 22 grains of 2400 gave an average muzzle velocity of 2,195 fps. That gives a muzzle energy of 2567 ft. lbs. Not bad for a lightweight carbine!

Mr. Keith proved that the flat nosed 44's dump a lot of energy. My 240+ grain bullets hit the berm at 100 yards with authority and shoot pretty flat - out to 100 yards at least.
 
4 rounds of 223 weighs about the same as 1 round of 44 mag

Lugging a bunch of 44mag around on a battlefield would get pretty tiring wouldnt it?

I think a 44 mag rifle would be a wonderful thing if I had a couple of slaves to help me tote the ammo.
 
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Stubby,

I've fired a .22 through both sides of a P/U truck bed.

Not really challenging, actually, as the metal just isn't very thick. If you hit at the right spot, you're only going through 4 layers of mild sheet steel, that total don't add up to half an inch.
 
Large caliber carbine

There was a gun smith in Oklahoma City a number of years ago that was taking a .30 carbine and reworking it to take a .308 cut off at the shoulder and loaded with a .44 bullet. If I remember correctly he called it the 44OCPD for the Oklahoma City Police Department. I think he sold a few of them to individual officers that hand loaded their own ammo. He reworked the mag also and I seem to remember he had made a 10 or 15 round clip for it. I got to test shoot one he had just completed for someone and it was a real boomer.
 
OkieGentleman -
Wasn't there a short lived round called the 44 AutoMag that was made in a similar way?
 
WHAT ABOUT POLICE WORK?

For battle, the .44 Mag is going to suffer for one primary reason--limited range. Those big, heavy cast bullets will drop fast after 100 yards and lose a lot of umph. I'm not fan of the .223, but at least it can still hit at typical post-Napoleonic combat distances. It might make a good alternative to shotguns for short to medium range work, though.

On the other hand, I've always wondered why *cops* don't start packing semi-auto or lever action .44 Mag carbines, at least in a few squad cars. I've seen plenty of episodes of "Cops" where the BG is trying to kill someone, but he's out of effective 9mm handgun range (which is about ten to fifteen feet in real life). In contrast,even a fairly inexperienced shooter can turn a BG's head into a canoe inside of 75 yards with a .44 Mag carbine. As far as "overpentration" concerns, most of those idiotic 9mm's they love to spray have by definition "overpenetrated" because they simply never hit the target. I've often heard of shootouts where the cops shoot a suspect being shot ten times, but they *fired* forty or fifty rounds. With lots of people (including children!) living nearby, one shot, one kill has a lot of appeal.
 
My experinces were with a handgun. The pick up I was referring to was a 48 or 49 Chevrolet, when the beds were made with real steel, not the junk they are made of today!! Anyone who doubts the power of the 44 magnum should take one to a metal scrap yard.:)
 
My experinces were with a handgun. The pick up I was referring to was a 48 or 49 Chevrolet, when the beds were made with real steel, not the junk they are made of today!! Anyone who doubts the power of the 44 magnum should take one to a metal scrap yard.:)
 
Armor Penetration

.223 will NOT penetrate Level III armor. IIIA, yes. But to get to level III, you need, usually, steel plate. I have an armor vest like that, it's rated to stop 5.56mm and 7.62x39mm. I tested the latter on it at a range of about 30 feet. Sure enough, it put a dent in the armor, but did not penetrate. I'm not saying .44 mag will penetrate better, but don't over-rate the penetration of .223, either.

In an all-rounder combat rifle, I'd prefer .308. Yes, I know you get less ammo and it's heavier, but I'm used to hauling loads around, being in the military, and I'd rather have the added range and penetration that 7.62mm offers.

For an emergency situation, though, I would not feel underarmed with a .44 Mag carbine.
 
Pardon the BS here, but out of a rifle I put hardcast 300 grain 44 Magnum thru 3/4 inch steel plate on a regular basis.
 
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