.44 mag vs .454 Casull

I've shot .44's and owned one some years back. Recently I had a 7.5" SRH in 454 Casull. In terms of recoil, I never found the .454 to be bad at all. I shot 240gr XTPs, 300gr XTPs, 360 Buffalo Bores and some 395gr handloads. Yes the recoil is there and yes it's more than a .44 Mag, but it's not brutal. The design of the grip has a lot to do with it, and the SRH 454 never did hurt to shoot at all. I've shot S&W 357 Magnums that literally hurt, but never the 454 Ruger.

Of the two, I'd suggest the 454 because you can also stoke it with .44 Mag level .45 Colt ammo and still punch a bigger hole. But to be fair to the .44 Mag, ammo is going to be easier to find for it if you don't load your own. Standard level .45 Colt in the SRH 454 feels like a light 38 Special out of a heavy .357, very easy almost nonexistent recoil. Warmer .45 Colt is no joke either, almost 454 recoil!

Don't overlook the .480 Ruger either, it's a beast and only slightly slower than a 475 Linebaugh. Bigger and heavier bullets too, which is always a good thing. Biggest downside is that of the three, ammo is the most scarce for the 480 Ruger, meaning you'd better be okay with ordering ammo online.

The only reason I sold my SRH 454 was because I have a 5.5" Bisley in .45 Colt and for around here (or in North America for that matter) I don't need a .454.
 
Last edited:
Save some money and buy a can of bear spray. I'd probably leave the shotgun at home too. If you want an excuse for another handgun my vote is a 4" Smith 629 or Ruger Redhawk in 44 mag. The 454 is best used in long barreled handguns where you are hunting. For your uses you really want something smaller that you will actually keep on you. Heavy handguns get left behind after a while.

The odds of being struck by lightening are far greater than having to stop a bear attack, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be prepared. My personal choice when we have been in bear country including Yellowstone was my Glock 20 loaded with hot 10mm loads along with bear spray. The bear spray would have been my 1st line of defense with the handgun only a last resort.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^ This.
 
The odds of being struck by lightening are far greater than having to stop a bear attack, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be prepared. My personal choice when we have been in bear country including Yellowstone was my Glock 20 loaded with hot 10mm loads along with bear spray. The bear spray would have been my 1st line of defense with the handgun only a last resort.
Click to expand...

I've covered this it seems 100 times. :rolleyes:

The only times the encounters make the headlines is when blood is drawn on either party. I've had at least 5 confrontations stopped with either firing in the air or drawing my handgun and clicking the action. I know of at least 20 more that have done the same in my area. I agree on pepper spray being used as a secondary measure. Have I tested that crap in a slight breeze???? Yes !!! I think the name "udap!" is really a foreign cuss word that comes out when that stuff comes back in your face :mad:. Relying on mother nature for the perfect conditions and your threat to cooperate and please stand downwind, is not in my repertoire. No, my first reaction is... "hand on trusty Redhawk".
 
Heavier bullets + more velocity = better penetration.
Click to expand...
Heavier bullets = better penetration. It is well proven that exceeding 1200-1300fps with hardcast bullets does NOT yield greater penetration. Only greater recoil and muzzle blast. So if the .44Mag can drive 330's and 355's to over 1200fps safely, all the .454 is going to gain you is range.....and recoil.....and muzzle blast.
 
Don't overlook the .480 Ruger either, it's a beast and only slightly slower than a 475 Linebaugh. Bigger and heavier bullets too, which is always a good thing. Biggest downside is that of the three, ammo is the most scarce for the 480 Ruger, meaning you'd better be okay with ordering ammo online.
Click to expand...

What this guy said.
However, you mentioned that you'd like to start reloading. Which is another reason to look at the .480.
If your dead set on picking one of the calibers you named, my vote goes to the 454 by way of the old adage "it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".
 
Odds of a bear attack...? Small of course. The lightning comparison isn't real good since I have been struck by lightning once and almost (within 50 feet impacts) on a couple occasions. A really bad lightning storms scares me to death if I am out in the woods or in fields and exposed.

Fake bear charges also scare me to death. It has happened. Never been attacked.
 
Heavier bullets = better penetration. It is well proven that exceeding 1200-1300fps with hardcast bullets does NOT yield greater penetration. Only greater recoil and muzzle blast. So if the .44Mag can drive 330's and 355's to over 1200fps safely, all the .454 is going to gain you is range.....and recoil.....and muzzle blast.
Click to expand...

I would beg to differ based on this excerpt from Rathcoombes study:

Let's make a practical comparison of extremes. Consider a .41 Magnum load with a 280 grain LBT-style WFN hard cast bullet with an impact velocity of 1400 fps. Now, comprare this load with a .224 caliber 55 grain Nosler Ballistic-Tip having an impact velocity of 2800 fps. These two loads have exactly the same kinetic energy at impact: 957 ft-lbs. However, their respective terminal behaviors are very different. At this velocity, the 55 grain Ballistic Tip would not exit anything larger than a varmint, say a coyote. The .41 Magnum load will easily break both shoulders on an elk and exit. Between these two loads, the .224 Ballistic Tip would be the better performer on smaller game (or human targets), but I am confident that the advocacy for its use on game such as elk and bear would be very much in the minority, and rightly so. It would definitely deliver more energy to the target, but its effectiveness would suffer from inadequate penetration. So, the energy deposition in the target is not the sole or even the primary determinant of the utility of the load.

If you are so inclined and have a LOT of free time you can read it all here
 
You're comparing apples to Volkswagens and I'm not sure how your statement conflicts with mine anyway. My statement was within the narrow context of big bore handguns, hard cast bullets and handgun velocities.
 
I love big bore revolvers. My friends think I'm nuts when I shoot them. Most of them shoot my big boomers once and call me crazy. And these are very seasoned shooters.

I have a 44 Mag Redhawk, 454 Casull SRH, and a 8 inch X-frame in 460 S&W Mag. The 454 Casull is by far the most brutal of them all. I hand load all my rounds. The starting load of H110 for 454 with a 240 grain XTP Mag is more brutal than a higher end 300 grain XTP Mag in the 460.!

Shot placement is everything. .44 Mag has taken Polar bears and elephants. So the .44 Mag is no slouch. If I could only have one magnum revolver, it would be a .44 Mag. It is so versatile.

You can not go wrong with any of them. But, .44 Mag at 300+ grains at 1200-1300 is more than adequate.

I hunt with my 454 SRH but I use downloaded charges. My .44 mag is a 4.20 inch barrel. I like the 7.5 inch site radius better of the SRH. I jus got such a screaming deal on the Casull it was hard to pass up.
 
You're comparing apples to Volkswagens and I'm not sure how your statement conflicts with mine anyway. My statement was within the narrow context of big bore handguns, hard cast bullets and handgun velocities
Click to expand...

Sorry. I didn't pay close enough attention to your statement. You are correct about the recoil and muzzle blast. I had understood your post to compare differing weights as well as calibers.
 
Clicking the action??????????

I've covered this it seems 100 times.

The only times the encounters make the headlines is when blood is drawn on either party. I've had at least 5 confrontations stopped with either firing in the air or drawing my handgun and clicking the action. I know of at least 20 more that have done the same in my area. I agree on pepper spray being used as a secondary measure. Have I tested that crap in a slight breeze???? Yes !!! I think the name "udap!" is really a foreign cuss word that comes out when that stuff comes back in your face . Relying on mother nature for the perfect conditions and your threat to cooperate and please stand downwind, is not in my repertoire. No, my first reaction is... "hand on trusty Redhawk".
___

I can understand how a shot over the head of, in front of, between the legs of a bear MIGHT scare it away but just can't see how drawing the gun and "clicking the action" is going to act as any kind of deterrent for bear, wolf, coyote, goldfish, hamster, stuffed animal or predator of any kind that simply has no idea what a gun is. I can see how this may deter a human predator, but a wild animal, get SERIOUS______________
 
Hunting with a handgun is one thing....and that is where you probably want a 6" - 7.5" - or even an 8 3/8" barrel.

Reacting to a close encounter from a Grizzly / is when you need something quick and effective....and follow up shots are going to be critical. While charges are rare...they happen most when you're in dense brush / and the Grizzly being near sighted didn't see or hear you coming - and is startled when you come upon them, can't figure out what you are so they charge !

I've only had to kill one Grizzly in all my years in Northwestern Montana...and he was an old lame bear...but he charged from about 30 yards...and 2 of us, put him down with a .30-06 and a .30-40 Krag. We were prepared when he charged, rifles were up, but he didn't go down hard until at least 4 rounds hit him - and we put 4 or 5 more in him, just in case - and then turned the carcass over to fish and game the next day.

An encounter like that - is what you might have to face in Grizzly country ...so in my opinion, you're going to want a 4" barrel...and be able to make at least 4 or 5 follow up shots, on target, inside of 5 seconds at the most. The more recoil your gun has - the harder it will be to bring that gun down for a 3rd or 4th shot....and its not just strength, its practice. You will not have a lot of time.

Backpacking or hiking...a shoulder holster can get in the way ...but so can a belt scabbard type holster. Weather ( rain, snow) affect what outer coats you wear....size of pack affects whether you can use a shoulder holster..on horseback, you can carry the gun in a scabbard on your saddle...or anything in between. I don't think you'll find one rig is going to work for every scenario. Most of the time, I carried a 4" model 29 S&W ...and I had both an outside waist band scabbard style holster..that I wore on day hikes, around my camp, etc....I wore a shoulder holster when I was fly fishing and wading in creeks or lakes...when I had a heavy pack on - I tried a lot of rigs on my pack straps, accross my chest, etc...and nothing was very comfortable.

These days, I have a 3" model 629 S&W that is ported - so it helps reduce the muzzle flip. Its an RSR gun / their Trail Boss model ...and I carry it if I know I'm in Grizzly country. If I'm not in Grizzly country - I carry a model 686 S&W 4" in .357 Mag.

I've used Kramer Leather holsters for a long time...and I like them a lot.
----------
If I wanted to hunt with a handgun ...then my whole awareness is different / a longer barrel is not a problem - but I'd probably have a rifle as well. But big game hunting season - weather is more consistent - at least in Montana ...so its easier to establish your rig and how you'll carry it. Its not like hiking in shorts and a T shirt.
 
With all due respect, ought 6, you must not fully understand the capacity of some animal brains. Why do humans know what the clicking of an action entails? Because through cognitive process and intuition, they have LEARNED what that sound means. An animal, especially one with the capacity of a grizz, has the ability to learn as well. Google "dinner bell theory". On the other hand, if they haven't learned, an unfamiliar gesture accompanied by the strange click, coupled with dominant body language, is going to make them think twice. What do you do when you are confronted with something potentially dangerous and unfamiliar to you? I'm sure you aren't going to be over zealous about it. It's really a mental game. Many of the attacks you read about that ended in injury or fatality involved panicking, submissive body language, being alone, fleeing. Body language and mentality are just as important as a gun.
 
I think the 5.5" .44 RH is going to be my choice, if I even get to those rounds. I'm hoping ill have the shotgun available first. My main concerns initially involved the differences in effectiveness, and i wanted opinions on issues carrying in rough terrain. i am seeing that good placement and plenty of practice is most important, and the .454, especially at 7.5" is unnecessary for now. ill keep it in mind for the future, as it seems like an enjoyable luxury, or something to show off at least. Looks like there are quite a few holsters I'm going to be sorting through.
 
Carrying in rough terrain - say with a lot of windfalls or accross melting snow fields, or loose shale rock...or steep ...or brushy...or really wet like in alders....or some of all of the above - all make everything more difficult.

Weight and position of the gun ...are even more critical ...whenever you have adverse conditions or terrain...but I think your critical issue is whether you're on horseback, or on foot....and if on foot..what are you carrying. If you just have a knapsack ...for a day trip with survival gear...every carry option is pretty easy - and most anything will work fine. If you have a heavy backpack ...it gets way more difficult in tough terrain.

In real wet conditions - or heavy wet snow / you may even want some kind of a flap holster / or a strap securing the gun in the holster - especially if you may be falling a little.

Modern outerwear ....makes things a little easier than it was 40 yrs ago / when we wore a lot of wool in winter hunting / rain slickers when it rained ....and you can get your outer garmets oversized to make carrying easier - and they breathe better and wick moisture away from your body better. If you're working real hard...and sweating hard...I still don't want a shoulder holster in my armpit...
------------
Do some day hikes in your local area....some in rough terrain / some on wet days...and wear a shoulder holster with a 4" or a 6" gun...or whatever you have / it'll teach you a lot very quickly. Carry an extra belt holster...and wear it for a few hours.../ sometimes a holster on your belt is just in the way of everything...especially if your pack has a waist belt / or maybe you can fit the holster on the packs waist belt...

A 4" . 44 mag ....probably weighs, loaded, at least 4 lbs.../ in a 6" add at least another 8 oz.../ 4 lbs plus, after 6 or 8 hours in the woods ...is a lot...
( and if you're dragging along a heavy shotgun or a rifle....) ....man you're dragging around a lot of weight....
 
More "Clicking"

With all due respect, ought 6, you must not fully understand the capacity of some animal brains. Why do humans know what the clicking of an action entails? Because through cognitive process and intuition, they have LEARNED what that sound means. An animal, especially one with the capacity of a grizz, has the ability to learn as well. Google "dinner bell theory". On the other hand, if they haven't learned, an unfamiliar gesture accompanied by the strange click, coupled with dominant body language, is going to make them think twice. What do you do when you are confronted with something potentially dangerous and unfamiliar to you? I'm sure you aren't going to be over zealous about it. It's really a mental game. Many of the attacks you read about that ended in injury or fatality involved panicking, submissive body language, being alone, fleeing. Body language and mentality are just as important as a gun.

Nelson77270, with due respect back to you I still don't, and never will see how "clicking the action" will deter a ****** off bear, or whatever. You must assume that the predator/attacker in question has put 2 and 2 together regarding the "clicking" sound and being shot/shot at. This is a chance with a bear, or whatever it may be that I am not willing to take. If this theory works just carry an empty gun and "click the action" for protection.
 
I surely wouldn't depend on "clicking the action" to deter anything, man or beast. By the time the action clicks, the decision to fire a shot should've already been made.
 
I am merely explaining that to you, how that is possible. I am certainly not saying it is going to deter every bear or that you should carry empty. Regardless, this is pointless.

BigJimP:

I won't be carrying any heavy packs myself, probably nothing at all. All major gear will be in pack saddles and saddlebags. The shotgun will be in a saddle scabbard. I'm not counting on accessing that and getting off several shots in a surprise situation if mounted though, which is why I'll have a revolver. Both hip and shoulder areas will be open, and most of the sweating will be done by the horse. Ideally, I would find a rig that would allow me to switch between shoulder and hip, even if it is two different belts.
 
nelson77270, I agree

nelson77270, I agree, it is pointless. Just 2 guys expressing their opinions on a topic. Best to move on and we'll meet again along the road on another post.

Take care!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top