.416 Rigby vs .416 Remington Magnum

I have owned rifles in both 416 Rigby and 416 Remington. I prefer the Remington for the following reasons.
1) Less costly ammo and brass
2) equivilent performance with less recoil
3) easier to add a cartridge to the magazine w/o making such a deep drop box

Addessing the "VERY OLD" issues with pressures in hot climates.
1) I live in north Texas; It is no hotter in Africa in the summer than August in Texas; 100+ degrees. I have shot 100's of rounds through my 416 Remington over the past 10 years in this environment. No issues with modern powders; PERIOD!! People just need to stop regurgitating this 30 year old information with no personal experience.
2) The 416 Rem. is factory loaded at 45,000 CUP; The "African Darling" 375 H&H is factory loaded at 44,000 CUP. Do you ever hear of people complaining about the 375 H&H and extraction issues??? NO!! Get over it!
a) One of the most common powders to gain maximum potential out of the 375H&H is W760; Guess what: A ball powder! The same type of propellant accussed of causing pressure build ups in high temp environs.
3) Most factory loadings of modern cartridges are loaded at about 45,000 CUP. and you hear little or nothing of 300 mags and 338 mags in Africa with extraction issues.
This topic needs to be put to rest. The 416 Rigby is a fine cartridge but if you want to move a 400 gr forty caliber bullet at 2400-2450 fps; the Remington version is just fine.
If you want to move one faster the Rigby design is certainly capable.

I like the old English cartridges as well and own a 404 jeffery, 470 nitro's and 500 nitro's and hope to add a 450/ 400 in the near future. They are all great old cartridges with allot of history. I especially like the new 404 Jeffery Norma loading with a 450 gr bullet at 2150 fps.

Winchester and Hornady now offer 458 Win Mag factory loads at 2250 fps with 500 gr bullets. These new cartridge offerings in this caliber will do any thing the old english guns will with with far less recoil.

If you are interested in a very reliable 416 Rem. load using a 400 gr Swift or 400 Nosler partition; try 79 gr of RL -15. In the Nosler manual is is listed at 2 gr. off maximum and 2453 FPS. I think Swift lists 79 gr of RL-15 as a max load at 2430 FPS. If have talked person to person with a Swift representative at the Safari show and asked why they are so conservative with their load data and they say it is liability reasons.
This is a load I have used for years and it is very safe and have absolutely no issues in 100+ temps. Custom Win. Model 70.

Most importantly; Most hunting in Africa is done in the winter; Just an FYI; heat is seldom an issue.
Drama; Drama; Drama
 
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If you go to Africa; Practice shooting with the sticks; It will pay off regardless of what you shoot.
 
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Ah, here we are again 308 vs 30-06 except a different caliber. Its your choice. Balistics are close to eachother. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. If you want to get the best performance, upgrade to 416WBY, balistics pale in comparison.
 
As stated above, the only real difference is ammo price/availability. Both cartridges are fairly equal in terms of performance, and should do just fine for anything you hunt on the dark continent. My father has a .416 Rigby ( sold his 458 to buy it) and shooting it is tolerable, off hand. Shooting it off a bench is about the worst torture I have experienced, you really need to be able to roll with the recoil with that cartridge. Factory ammo does pretty well, but you can really crank things up with handloads. Having put many rounds thru both his .416 Rigby and .458 Win, I think for my big bore, I will stick with the good old .375 H&H. (Although thoughts of a .404 Jeffrey cross my mind a bit, just for something different) The .375 has very tolerable recoil, cheaper to shoot, you don't have to pack around a 12 lb rifle, and it still gets the job done fine, just ask Finn Aagard, John Hunter, Peter Capstick, etc.
 
The old sticky extraction fable

For years I've been hearing the same tired old crap: "Don't use the .416 Remington Magnum on a dangerous game safari because it will lock up on you & get you killed.":mad:

Do the rules of reloading common sense suddenly vanish when discussing the .416 Remington Magnum?

You develop & test your loads for the environment you intend to deploy the firearm in WITH ANY CALIBER.

A load developed for deployment on an African Safari with 100 degree + average temperatures & a load developed for a backup gun to be deployed in Churchill Falls, Canada as a Polar Bear backup gun in the winter using exactly the same components would probably call for different powder charges as a given maximum powder charge developed for the cold weather environment would likely generate excess pressure in the hot environment & thus result in difficult extraction.

Without thorough in the field development & testing for each specific situation & firearm/caliber selection the above paragraph is nothing but guesstimations & generalizations but the principles are well established as factual.

In a nutshell a load has to be developed & thoroughly tested for the environment it is to be used in.

I own 2 x .416 Remington Magnum rifles & have used them just about everywhere & have never had a problem because I exercise due diligence as regards environment specific load development & testing with all the firearms and calibers I own.

If this nonsense was spread intentionally to "kill" a perfectly good caliber it did a heck of a job because it's hard getting rifles, ammo & reloading components for the .416 Remington Magnum. Finding new brass for the .416 Remington Magnum is next to impossible.

Way to go rumor mongers.:mad:
 
I have a friend who has a .416 Rigby. I neither own a .416 nor have used one. If I thought I wanted one I would pick a preferred rifle than the cartridge unless ammo was a problem.
I would not worry about the pressure. I am sure that the Rem is safe, and I don't really care about pressure or efficiency if the rifle and cartridge do what I want.

Based upon the posts that indicate that the .416 Rem ammo is more available, I would choose it. I suspect also that a good rifle for the .416 Rem is more available, less expensive, maybe a little less cumbersome due to the use of a smaller action.

FWIW chamber pressure has nothing to do with recoil. Recoil is derived from momentum.

Regards,
Jerry
 
from an African perspective i can only confirm what has already been said. the 416 Rigby ammo is available in almost any gun shop, the 416 Rem ammo can be ordered. the Rigby has a very loyal following in Africa.
 
The temperature vs pressure question was originally important because the British Cordite powder was more sensitive to high temperatures.That's much less of a problem with modern powders.

Hunting dangerous game is serious business .It's frustrating to see tv shows where the hunter doesn't understand this .From fumbling reloads to a resent one where a woman hunting cape buffalo was very unfamiliar with the gun ,the PH constantly checking her and the gun.:(
 
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