.416 Rigby vs .416 Remington Magnum
- Thread starter RGL01
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Biggest differences?
The Remington round operates at significantly higher pressure.
The Remington round has a belted case.
Remington try to reinvent the wheel with their .416.
All they managed to do was create a square wheel.
The Remington round operates at significantly higher pressure.
The Remington round has a belted case.
Remington try to reinvent the wheel with their .416.
All they managed to do was create a square wheel.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Arthur,
I'm assuming you mean the ammo.
I'd say that's true in the United States (but I'd be SHOCKED if you were to walk into a gunshop in nowhereville, USA, and find a box of .416 anything).
In Africa, though, I'd bet you'd be a lot more likely to find .416 Rigby ammo. The .416 has been a staple in Africa almost since its introduction in 1907.
Like many of Remington's cartridge introductions in the 20th century, the .416 Remington has been largely a flop.
The TRUE kicker, though? Even though the .416 Rigby operates at significantly lower pressure, it churns out a lot more energy in most handloads.
The .416 Weatherby, on the other hand, tromps them both handily.
I'm assuming you mean the ammo.
I'd say that's true in the United States (but I'd be SHOCKED if you were to walk into a gunshop in nowhereville, USA, and find a box of .416 anything).
In Africa, though, I'd bet you'd be a lot more likely to find .416 Rigby ammo. The .416 has been a staple in Africa almost since its introduction in 1907.
Like many of Remington's cartridge introductions in the 20th century, the .416 Remington has been largely a flop.
The TRUE kicker, though? Even though the .416 Rigby operates at significantly lower pressure, it churns out a lot more energy in most handloads.
The .416 Weatherby, on the other hand, tromps them both handily.
I haven't fired either one of these, so all I know is "what I read in the papers." I do know that Ed Matunas preferred the .416 Rigby slightly because it developed lower chamber pressures; hence, he figured, less likely to jam when some beastie was charging one at full-steam. He did also note that the .416 Remington is more available and somewhat less expensive.
Like I said, based SOLELY on reading....
Like I said, based SOLELY on reading....
Mannlicher
New member
What I see from looking at sources online and in print, is that the Rigby cartridge is larger, and burns more powder. The Remington cartridge uses less powder, at higher pressure to achieve the same end.
I am not sure which is better. I don't think an Elk could tell the difference though.
I am not sure which is better. I don't think an Elk could tell the difference though.
Mike Irwin
Staff
I don't think I'd use a .416 on elk. Just a slight bit of... overkill.
1. The 416 Rigby requires a pretty mammoth rifle to hold many in the magazine. I believe it is the basis for the 460 Weatherby and 378 with the added belt.
2. I thought the reason the old British cartridges had such large volume is because they used Cordite which went up in pressure as the ambient temperature rose. The modern double based powders are more stable.
2. I thought the reason the old British cartridges had such large volume is because they used Cordite which went up in pressure as the ambient temperature rose. The modern double based powders are more stable.
CarbineCaleb
New member
+1 - I am not a safari hunter, but at least from what I have read, the .416 will work on anything on earth - polar bear, brown bear, lion, tiger, cape buffalo, rhino, elephant.
TerminalVelocity16
New member
Anything on earth? do you really need to go above .400 to kill anything on earth? I would think the 375 H&H mag. would be sufficiant for just about anything on earth
-Term
-Term
Mike Irwin
Staff
Ask some of the professional hunters (or read about their exploits) and you'll soon see that while you can kill just about anything on earth with just about any caliber, sometimes being able to do so very fast with very large bullets is the optimal way to go.
If the best mouse trap truly were rounds lik the .375 and .404 Jeffery, then cartridge development for dangerous game would have stopped dead in its tracks as all of the hunters switched over.
That's not what happened, though.
The really big calibers (.500 and up) still have significant followings in Africa as true stopping rifles.
In British parlance, the .416 isn't even a large bore rifle. It's a medium bore.
If the best mouse trap truly were rounds lik the .375 and .404 Jeffery, then cartridge development for dangerous game would have stopped dead in its tracks as all of the hunters switched over.
That's not what happened, though.
The really big calibers (.500 and up) still have significant followings in Africa as true stopping rifles.
In British parlance, the .416 isn't even a large bore rifle. It's a medium bore.
I prefer the .416 Rigby
Both cartridges develop comparable muzzle velocity as set out in the Hornady Reloading Manual, 9th ed. (Max 2400 Rigby vs Max 2450 Remington). Those 50 fps don't mean much in terms of downrange energy. There is a SLIGHT variation in point of impact, but, neither cartridge is designed for 300 yard shots in the first place so that is not much of an issue. Neither wins the speed debate
The Rigby cartridge is slightly larger 3.75" Max. COL versus 3.60" Max COL (about 1/16 inch difference), but is definitaly fatter .590" versus .532" in the Remington. Remington wins the size debate.
The chamber pressure in the Rigby is lower than the Remington, however I am not aware of any SAAMI pressure limitation on the Rigby. 44,000 has been suggested as the pressure limit, versus the SAAMI limit of 65,000 psi for the Remington. Lower pressures mean a lower likelihood of a jam and lower likelyhood of dangerous overpressure or jamming in a very hot climate. I.E. Africa. Rigby wins here.
Accessability of ammunition. Probably a draw, If you reload, it is a moot point. How many of you have ever run out of ammo on a big game hunt?
The biggest issue for me is the safety issue involving less likelihood of jamming. So I prefer the Rigby. I have shot one and it shoots well with a manageable recoil.
Happy Hunting
Rblum
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" George W. Bush, January 11, 2000.
Both cartridges develop comparable muzzle velocity as set out in the Hornady Reloading Manual, 9th ed. (Max 2400 Rigby vs Max 2450 Remington). Those 50 fps don't mean much in terms of downrange energy. There is a SLIGHT variation in point of impact, but, neither cartridge is designed for 300 yard shots in the first place so that is not much of an issue. Neither wins the speed debate
The Rigby cartridge is slightly larger 3.75" Max. COL versus 3.60" Max COL (about 1/16 inch difference), but is definitaly fatter .590" versus .532" in the Remington. Remington wins the size debate.
The chamber pressure in the Rigby is lower than the Remington, however I am not aware of any SAAMI pressure limitation on the Rigby. 44,000 has been suggested as the pressure limit, versus the SAAMI limit of 65,000 psi for the Remington. Lower pressures mean a lower likelihood of a jam and lower likelyhood of dangerous overpressure or jamming in a very hot climate. I.E. Africa. Rigby wins here.
Accessability of ammunition. Probably a draw, If you reload, it is a moot point. How many of you have ever run out of ammo on a big game hunt?
The biggest issue for me is the safety issue involving less likelihood of jamming. So I prefer the Rigby. I have shot one and it shoots well with a manageable recoil.
Happy Hunting
Rblum
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" George W. Bush, January 11, 2000.
Don't know how true this is, but I read several years ago that Remington opted to develop the 416 Rem because 416 Rigby ammo was generally not available (probably meant in the USA). However Ruger opted to chamber a rifle for the 416 Rigby and create demand for the ammo, prompting Hornady to offer it.
If true, some of our corporate giants do not understand supply and demand.
If true, some of our corporate giants do not understand supply and demand.
Charshooter
New member
The 416 Remington was very popular in Africa in the 1990s, as it was a compromise between the 375 H&H and the 458 Winchester magnum. For reasons not clear to me, the 416 seems to have faded some and the 416 Rigby with has been around for years became loaded again and some rifle companies came to choose it. Nevertheless, it did not achieve great popularity. Today, the 375 is still the most common African caliber along with an assortment of big bores, such as the 458 Lott and the propriety A-Square and of course the big Weatherbys. There is a host of other big bores and many are used. As to availability, the 458 Win and 375 H&H are the most common.
Most plains game shooters still prefer less powerful cartridges, such as the 30-06 and other similar size numbers. I have not hunted the Dark Continent in some years so I would imagine what is used and available has changed. I doubt the main stays have not changed much.
Most plains game shooters still prefer less powerful cartridges, such as the 30-06 and other similar size numbers. I have not hunted the Dark Continent in some years so I would imagine what is used and available has changed. I doubt the main stays have not changed much.
Boston T. Party
Inactive
Both fire a 400gr at 2400fps.
The Rigby is a fine caliber, and low-pressure, but you need a
behemoth action.
The .416 Rem does not have to be compressed loaded if you
use a 400gr A-Frame. Very common in Africa, and well-regarded.
I used one in 2005 Tanzania with splendid results.
More important is your familiarity and field accuracy.
Boston
My new book Safari Dreams available from:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=25890&st=safari dreams&s
The Rigby is a fine caliber, and low-pressure, but you need a
behemoth action.
The .416 Rem does not have to be compressed loaded if you
use a 400gr A-Frame. Very common in Africa, and well-regarded.
I used one in 2005 Tanzania with splendid results.
More important is your familiarity and field accuracy.
Boston
My new book Safari Dreams available from:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/productdetail.aspx?p=25890&st=safari dreams&s
I have fired a 416 rem some,and the recoil felt about the same a a 31/2 Ten gauge mag load in a light break action single shot shotgun.I might like it if I really needed it,but it was a bit much for me.
I have,however,fired someone's home made scaled up rem 700 in 50 BMG and wanted more!!
I think there is something to pressure level and the characteristic of recoil.
I can tolerate being pushed,but being punched is more painful.I don't know for sure,but I suspect in equal rifles ,even with similar ballistics and the physics of how mant ft lbs come through the butt plate,the acceleration and felt recoil of the Rem might be more.
The CZ .416 actions are in Brownells,I think the Montana Rifleman makes a .416 size M-70 clone.
Looking to see if a 338 ultramag was catalogued in a Sendero (prairie dogs)
I could not find any Rems over .300 Ultramag in any rifle outside their custom shop.Then the price starts at about $3000
As the Rem extractor is not favored for dangerous game,I suspect the Rigby will be easier to find ammo for,long term.
And,while I have never held or fired a .404 Jeffreys,for some reason,I think if I chose an exotic far away places rifle....
I have,however,fired someone's home made scaled up rem 700 in 50 BMG and wanted more!!
I think there is something to pressure level and the characteristic of recoil.
I can tolerate being pushed,but being punched is more painful.I don't know for sure,but I suspect in equal rifles ,even with similar ballistics and the physics of how mant ft lbs come through the butt plate,the acceleration and felt recoil of the Rem might be more.
The CZ .416 actions are in Brownells,I think the Montana Rifleman makes a .416 size M-70 clone.
Looking to see if a 338 ultramag was catalogued in a Sendero (prairie dogs)
I could not find any Rems over .300 Ultramag in any rifle outside their custom shop.Then the price starts at about $3000
As the Rem extractor is not favored for dangerous game,I suspect the Rigby will be easier to find ammo for,long term.
And,while I have never held or fired a .404 Jeffreys,for some reason,I think if I chose an exotic far away places rifle....