goodspeed(TPF)
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I think we all can agree on ".410" AND the fact that getting shot by one will most certainly ruin your day. Now how about that THOUSAND DOLLAR price tag? Any one else think it WAY to high?
410 gauge AR 15
- Thread starter tekarra
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FALPhil, really cool story, my dad tells this one all the time.
When he was in the landscape business his building was 3 or so miles away from our house, in the late 70's it was normal to shoot at his building, now I probably wasn't even a thought yet when this happened but they (the other business owners in the plot of property) would have a turkey shoot. Winner gets a turkey, so everyone is out there with their shotguns blowing away at clay and anything else that goes airborne. Then the rifles came out and the match went to "Who can hit the target at the farthest distance?" So, the gunfire of 30-06's .308's, .223's brought Old Man McCracken out of his house on the hill across the highway. So he comes up and everyone says a nice hello and how are things going to him. And McCracken asks whats going on with all the guns and they said they are doing long distance target shooting for a turkey. My father asks if he would like to have a go and presents his Winchester 94 30-30 to him. McCracken replies, no thanks let me go and get my gun. So McCracken comes back in a few minutes with a case and that's it. He opens the case and everyone comes to find it is a basic M1 Garand with stock sights and what have you, a really basic one. He brings it up and sights on a coffee can 1/4 mile or so down range and just holds it up and stares down the barrel, everyone says "you cant shoot that with out a scope, your 60 years old!" He carefully loads one single round in the chamber, no full stripper clip or anything, just one round, and stands there for a few seconds and the barell is shaking all over and it stopped, i guess it felt like the world stopped, and all you heard was that M1 firing that round off and all you see is a coffee can exploding a 1/4 mile down range. He just simply put the gun back in the case, and as he was walking back to his house he said, "I would rather have my turkey cooked, could you guys do that for me?"
My dad tells it with a little more enthusiasm, it is a good one though!
When he was in the landscape business his building was 3 or so miles away from our house, in the late 70's it was normal to shoot at his building, now I probably wasn't even a thought yet when this happened but they (the other business owners in the plot of property) would have a turkey shoot. Winner gets a turkey, so everyone is out there with their shotguns blowing away at clay and anything else that goes airborne. Then the rifles came out and the match went to "Who can hit the target at the farthest distance?" So, the gunfire of 30-06's .308's, .223's brought Old Man McCracken out of his house on the hill across the highway. So he comes up and everyone says a nice hello and how are things going to him. And McCracken asks whats going on with all the guns and they said they are doing long distance target shooting for a turkey. My father asks if he would like to have a go and presents his Winchester 94 30-30 to him. McCracken replies, no thanks let me go and get my gun. So McCracken comes back in a few minutes with a case and that's it. He opens the case and everyone comes to find it is a basic M1 Garand with stock sights and what have you, a really basic one. He brings it up and sights on a coffee can 1/4 mile or so down range and just holds it up and stares down the barrel, everyone says "you cant shoot that with out a scope, your 60 years old!" He carefully loads one single round in the chamber, no full stripper clip or anything, just one round, and stands there for a few seconds and the barell is shaking all over and it stopped, i guess it felt like the world stopped, and all you heard was that M1 firing that round off and all you see is a coffee can exploding a 1/4 mile down range. He just simply put the gun back in the case, and as he was walking back to his house he said, "I would rather have my turkey cooked, could you guys do that for me?"
My dad tells it with a little more enthusiasm, it is a good one though!
when it comes to small game, most shooting takes place at 35yds and in. I would estimate the average shots take place around 30yds. Dove and quail are around 35yds to 40yds. Now what I will not argue is the 12ga will reach out for farther ranges. I have not attempted to hunt pheasant with my 410's. I have only used 20's and 12 for them. Duck and geese require the 12ga in 3 or 3 1/2 just to have the payload in steel shot required to bring down the tougher birds.
I can tell you that my hunting buddies really hate when I take the 410's in the field. They can not stand being out shot by a 410. Where as I don't consider the 410 a kids gun but rather a more advanced shooters gun. If you are able to shoot well the 410 can really bring home the game. Early dove season you will find me afield with my O/U 410 as it just seems to naturally swing and get on target much easier than any other shotgun I own.
It should also be noted that I reload my own shells (12, 20 and 410 anyway). I believe that using a consistant speed round that is suited to your shotgun shooting style is the key.
You will notice that at no time have I said the 410 is superior or equal in the hands of an average shooter. It takes a certain level of skill to use a 410 effectively and that is why I feel the 12ga is so popular, it makes up for sloppy shooting skills and those who don't want to wait for the ideal shots. I know the last statement might offend some but there is a reason they feel the need for so much excessive payload to take something as light as a dove, quail, rabbit and most predators (animal types).
just my opinions andyou are of course welcome to disagree.
I can tell you that my hunting buddies really hate when I take the 410's in the field. They can not stand being out shot by a 410. Where as I don't consider the 410 a kids gun but rather a more advanced shooters gun. If you are able to shoot well the 410 can really bring home the game. Early dove season you will find me afield with my O/U 410 as it just seems to naturally swing and get on target much easier than any other shotgun I own.
It should also be noted that I reload my own shells (12, 20 and 410 anyway). I believe that using a consistant speed round that is suited to your shotgun shooting style is the key.
You will notice that at no time have I said the 410 is superior or equal in the hands of an average shooter. It takes a certain level of skill to use a 410 effectively and that is why I feel the 12ga is so popular, it makes up for sloppy shooting skills and those who don't want to wait for the ideal shots. I know the last statement might offend some but there is a reason they feel the need for so much excessive payload to take something as light as a dove, quail, rabbit and most predators (animal types).
just my opinions andyou are of course welcome to disagree.
The Safir and most American 410 shotguns are of course caliber not gauge. The 410 would equate to something in the 67 or 68 gauge. European countries run a bunch of different gauges that we don't even get to see here. Most of them are considerably smaller than our normal shtogun. Without doing the math a 410 gauge shotgun would have a bore about 1/4" in diameter, my guess, and not worth the time to figure it out.
Had they made this when I was a kid I would have been agonizingly obsessed with them so as to have done even worse in school than I did...
Since I cut my teeth on a .410 bolt action I would have had visions of the millions of doves, pigeons and pheasant that would fall from the skies straight into the pot already cleaned!
Brent
Since I cut my teeth on a .410 bolt action I would have had visions of the millions of doves, pigeons and pheasant that would fall from the skies straight into the pot already cleaned!Brent
I have pretty much given up on trying to get people to understand that it is not correct to refer to a 410 gauge. Far too many people either don't know or don't care to know much about the 410 shotguns. Sad but at least it makes for some good deals on old used ones. The tough part is finding an old one in good shape.
I am a sucker for a gimmick 410 shotgun. If they would make a Garand in 410 I would probably own one of them as well. I had one of the snake charmer 410's back in the 80's, today I wish I had never sold it. I used to carry it under my cammo suits when deer hunting to pick up the ocassional squirrel when things were slow.
I am a sucker for a gimmick 410 shotgun. If they would make a Garand in 410 I would probably own one of them as well. I had one of the snake charmer 410's back in the 80's, today I wish I had never sold it. I used to carry it under my cammo suits when deer hunting to pick up the ocassional squirrel when things were slow.
an expert's gun
I disagree, but only mildly, with the idea that the 12 ga. is so popular because it makes up for sloppy shooting. However much that may be true, the denser pattern of the 12 ga. at any range makes the possiblity of a humane kill more certain. This is especially true at distances where a .410 pattern may be thin enough to have bird sized holes in it. If we need two pellets to kill a grouse at X yards, then the 12 may be a better choice with twice as many pellets in the pattern.
Pete
+1. I just reread these posts. That comment is certainly true. While frequently recommended to beginners because of generally lighter firearms and less recoil, the .410 caliber SGs have been accurately called expert's guns because of the inherent limitations that the small shot charge imposes.
I disagree, but only mildly, with the idea that the 12 ga. is so popular because it makes up for sloppy shooting. However much that may be true, the denser pattern of the 12 ga. at any range makes the possiblity of a humane kill more certain. This is especially true at distances where a .410 pattern may be thin enough to have bird sized holes in it. If we need two pellets to kill a grouse at X yards, then the 12 may be a better choice with twice as many pellets in the pattern.
Pete
Exactly why I use my 12's for duck, geese and larger birds. I am not trying to say the 410 should replace all shotguns just that it gets a bad rap. I personally like not having to spend a lot of time taking excessive amounts of shot out of the meat of small game just to make it edible. The 410 has limited uses and when used properly is more than effective.
I just think it is hilarious that people use the excuse the there are more rouds available for the 12 than the 410. Who really uses door buster rounds or dragons breath for anything more than fun?, which is what they say the 410 is only good for.
bigger birds equal bigger bone and a need for larger shot. Larger shot would equal fewer per round. Also larger birds are generally taken at longer distances. Waterfowl here are required to be taken with non toxic shot, usually lighter than lead pellet for pellet. All things combined, more pellets are required to bring down the larger birds. You have to use the right firearm for the intended prey. I don't know anyone using 50cal rifles for rabbit, at least the ones they intend to eat I use my 410's for dove, quail, rabbit, predatory animals and rifled slugs for javelina. This is where the 410 works best for me. The rounds are easier to carry in the field and the shotguns are generally lighter making them easier to carry also. Now add in the cool factor of an AR platform (which is advertised as one of the easiest point and shoot platforms available) with challenge of the 410 and you have a great hunting experience in my book.
I use my 410's for dove, quail, rabbit, predatory animals and rifled slugs for javelina. This is where the 410 works best for me. The rounds are easier to carry in the field and the shotguns are generally lighter making them easier to carry also. Now add in the cool factor of an AR platform (which is advertised as one of the easiest point and shoot platforms available) with challenge of the 410 and you have a great hunting experience in my book.A little time on my hands so I went to the range. I was out shooting clays this past weekend and managed 48 out of 50 clays with the Safir. This got me to thinking about the patterning of the pellets and of course you can't go to the range with a 410 without taking some slugs.
Willie Lowman
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Boy do I ever want me one of them there four ten gauge scatter rifles!!!
I'd even pay one thousand dollars fer it!
But what is a BIRDHOT round?
I'd even pay one thousand dollars fer it!
But what is a BIRDHOT round?
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