.410 for skeet?

Trap vs. Skeet

The only time I found the 20 inadequate was at trap where the extra shot of a 12 guage makes a significant difference in my score. On the skeet range I do just as well or better with 20 and have hunted pheasant with 20 though I like 3" shells for that. I have seen real experts clean up on the skeet range with 1/2 oz 410 loads. Given your wife is not a dainty gal, I'd say the right 20 will do everything your wife wants and will be OK for informal trap shooting where score is not a big deal. Since it sounds like she wants to shoot a lot you would have to reload 410 for cost to be competitive with the bigger guages. Last I checked 410 is about $10/25 and 12/20s are about $5. There is alos a lot better selection of 20s than 410s.
 
The problem with making a gun heavier to lighten recoil is that a person who can handle holding and swinging a heavier gun can also handle the recoil!
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Sorry RC, your analysis is wrong.
Just because someone can handle a heavy gun has NO BEARING on their ability to handle or not handle recoil. I know a woman, in her late 60's, all of 5 foot nothing, maybe 105 who shoots a 9# K gun BECAUSE she can't handle the recoil - she's a heck of a sporting clays shooter too and can shoot all day BECAUSE she doesn't have to worry about recoil.
I'm over 6'2 and 260 - I do not like, nor will I shoot, loads over 1200 fps and 1 oz, because of the recoil.


The 20 is a lighter gun and it kicks less than the 12 and it has better balance and swing.
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Not even close. That is only true depending on how the gun fits YOU. MANY 20's have substantially MORE recoil because the weight is less than a 12. Try a 7/8 oz load in a 7lb 20 and a 8-1/2 12. Assuming both fit you the same, there is no physical way the 20 recoils less.

You can take two guns that weight about the same and one might have a lower percieved kick as sulaco2 described due to speading the force over a longer time.
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That has EVERYTHING to do with gun fit. A lighter gun that fits you perfectly, will have less perceived recoil than a gas gun that does not.

There is a difference between ACTUAL and PERCEIVED recoil - weight, fit and operating system ALL come to bear on this.

OP - get your wife to a shotgun club and rent/borrow/try as many types and gauges as you can and let HER decide which one feels right to her. It might be an auto, semi, pump, SxS or whatever. YOU cannot pick out a gun for HER.
 
+1 on what OneOunce said ..... ( I went back and read some of your comments that I sort of skipped over rc ...)

in my opinion, the Browning BPS is a very well balanced gun in 12 or 20ga / but I'm not suggesting a pump gun is the best option for a new shooter. A pump gun is priced right ... but to use it effectively in Skeet or Sporting Clays - the shooter will need to have the strength and ability to cycle the pump - without dropping the gun down from her face... and there are a lot of shooters / let alone new shooters - that have trouble doing that.

I just don't find a pump gun / except on single targets - is a very good option for a new shooter wanting to get into the clay target sports - especially Skeet and Sporting / but it can be just fine for Trap.

But it sounds like your budget is under $1,000 - so I would still try and take a look at some good used semi-autos and see what you find around. The cost of 20ga ammo - is way less than 28ga .... so don't go to a 28ga unless you want to get into reloading.
 
I'm thinking Jim that maybe there needs to be a sticky at the top that has the links, documented evidence, and a simple, clear explanation of what recoil is, how it is calculated, and how different guns determine the same.......

There is WAY too much confusion about this.

It is very simple - HEAVY gun plus LIGHT load = LOW ACTUAL recoil

Add a gas system and PERCEIVED recoil is less

Add a perfect gun FIT and PERCEIVED recoil is less.
 
1-oz
oneounceload said:
I'm thinking Jim that maybe there needs to be a sticky at the top that has the links, documented evidence, and a simple, clear explanation of what recoil is, how it is calculated, and how different guns determine the same….…
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Please see PM
 
With this talk about gun weight and load reduction in consideration of reducing recoil, I'm compelled to remind everyone: In the simple terms, recoil energy is a reaction to the load mass times the square of the velocity. When considering reducing your loads for less recoil, first think about lowering the velocity.

Like oneounceload, I'm 6-2+ and recoil sensitive, also. In an attempt to reduce recoil, I went thru a lot of load evaluation. For close-in targets, like skeet, 1200fsp (and even 1,150 fps) is overkill. Dropping to 1,100 fps still crushes targets and reduces energy by 19%. As advocated by oneounceload, if you drop from 1-1/8oz to 1oz, then your recoil is down another 11%.

I should mention that, in the long run, I cheated and had air cushion stocks put on my guns. So, now is doesn't matter what I shoot. :cool:
 
Like oneounceload, I'm 6-2+ and recoil sensitive, also. In an attempt to reduce recoil, I went thru a lot of load evaluation. For close-in targets, like skeet, 1200fsp (and even 1,150 fps) is overkill. Dropping to 1,100 fps still crushes targets and reduces energy by 19%. As advocated by oneounceload, if you drop from 1-1/8oz to 1oz, then your recoil is down another 11%.
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Actually, going from 1 1/8 to 1 ounce will drop recoil by about 20%.

Recoil energy divides up according to the ratio of bullet to gun weight. If a gun weighs 100 times as much as the bullet, then the gun's recoil kinetic energy is 1/100 the kinetic energy of the bullet.

When you reduce shot weight, and keep velocity the same, you not only have less total kinetic energy, but since the gun still weighs the same, the gun gets a lower percentage of the total kinetic energy. So, reducing shot weight has a recoil reduction very similar to reducing velocity.

If you doubt this, compare the recoil of a .22 Hornet rifle shooting a 40 grain bullet at 2900 fps to the recoil of a 3 inch .410 magnum shooting a 5/8 ounce load at 1100 fps. These have similar kinetic energys. 733 ft lb for the shotgun and 749 ft lb for the rifle.
 
Originally Posted by oneounceload
I'm thinking Jim that maybe there needs to be a sticky at the top that has the links, documented evidence, and a simple, clear explanation of what recoil is, how it is calculated, and how different guns determine the same….…
Please see PM
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answered........
 
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