41 mag fail in Henry today!!

S

stagpanther

New member
Was out trying my first batch of 41 mag hand-loads through my new Henry 41 mag and after firing a nice shot which was justa smidgen off from POA, upon extraction the case landed standing straight up--and it looked rather odd. In fact, the case had failed and split almost perfectly in half--it looked as if it had gone through a metal saw!







The case in question was a remmie case which had been reloaded twice (fired 3 times including new). Load was 22.7 grs of H110 driving a 210 Hornady xtp. Yes this a warm load, but still within "reload manual safety range" There are no signs of over pressure, and the case shows normal signs of gas flow after a good ignition. I'm certain the case failed upon extraction--but I'm guessing most likely it was "predisposed" to failing from brass flowing from the top of the web area. Case trim was 1.29 and COL was 1.59. The remaining front half of the case came out of the chamber fairly easily.

I've reloaded powerful 44 mag loads and reused the cases many times and have never experienced this before. Any comments--observations, etc.??
 
That's odd. After two reloads I'd expect a mouth split before a body separation. Are you sure the case was only reloaded twice? Remington cases are poor quality for reloading, but that is just terrible.
 
Yes--reloaded twice but 1) it was factory ammo case and 2) the first time was through my blackhawk (not sure what difference, if any, that would make). The case wall seems paper thin in the area of the split. I've never seen anything like it before.
 
There are no signs of over pressure
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Well, a case splitting in half might be ;)

The primer looks pretty flat - but nothing I haven't seen before.

I would tend to side with you, actually: I think this case had a predisposition to failure; and it was probably extraction related somehow. I'm not an expert on lever actions, so I'm at the end of my knowledge base here.

R-P brass isn't known for its durability either.

All in all, I wouldn't be too worried. But it was a good idea to post it up and get some other opinions. Thanks for the pics, btw.
 
Thanks for the comments--I have limited amounts of winchester and starline brass to fall back on--but I've built up a pretty big collection of remmie brass since their factory ammo is fairly decent and inexpensive.
 
Inspect the chamber of the "...new Henry...". I suspect a chamber issue.
If is not rough, shoot more of the handloads...I suspect that there may have been a pre existing anomaly in the case that split. That type of case failure is not common for a .41 Magnum case from either too hot of a load or too many reloads. The case normally splits longitudinally, starting at the mouth of the case.
If you have the nerve, shooting 50 or so more rounds should indicate if it was an anomalous event.
 
When you trimmed, did it seem you were removing a fair amount? Could just be soft brass. If it stretches more than normal (whatever that is) it's going to start necking down at some point on its length. Once that starts, it will fail, and it's not surprising to see that neat right angle fracture.

I've never seen a case failure like that, but it was me, I would try a few more of that batch. If it happens again, ditch the brass. Or just pull the bullets and ditch the brass now. It's gotta be the brass.
 
Had that exact same thing happen once with a .357 in my Rossi 92, but I didn't see the half case get ejected. Couldn't for the life of me figure out why no other round would chamber all the way! But my trying to jack in a couple of new rounds really jammed that front half of the case in the chamber. I finally got it out by slugging the barrel - the case front came out on the end of the slug.

It only happened once for me, and it also was when the gun was fairly new. I have no idea what brand the case was, nor how many times it had been loaded.
 
I have had the same thing happen with twice fired RP brass:




All three split cases were of RP manufacture, and I ended up throwing all the RP brass I had in the scrap bin.



These were fired out of S&W model 58 with a load similar to the OP's.

As has been pointed out, RP brass isn't that durable.
 
@docktor--well--that cinches it for me--I'm unloading the remaining remmie case ones. I'll replicate the same load in used starline and winchester brass and see if there are similar issues.
@tangolima--I assume off the rim--is that what you mean?
 
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Does the gun have excessive headspace?

-TL
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Good question--since it came from the factory I'm assuming it was headspaced properly. Checking the spent cases I see no notable stretch in the case length nor any bulging in the the diameter beyond a normal .001 to .002. In examining my reloads however, I did find one case (remmie also) with a very faint line in the circumference which almost matches the location of the failed case area of separation.

I/m guessing that the brass started out thin--and a combination of brass flow from firing and the pressures from re-sizing/seating are stressing the area where the brass has thinned. I use a Lee factory collet sizing crimp die to specifically minimize case compression when crimping. My feeling is the failure is not so much a typical split as you would see in a neck/shoulder area--it looks more like a clean fracture consistent with brittleness.
 
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The rifle is new. But it doesn't hurt to check against this particular brass.

Do this at the range with the muzzle pointing down range. Put one layer of masking tape on the head of a round. Try closing the action on the round. Keep adding layers of tape till you feel resistance on the lever. Don't force the action close, just detect the first hint of resistance.

Each layer is about 0.004". 2 layers or less is OK. 3 is no good. 4 or more is schlect.

-TL
 
doktor--interesting how your case fractures look identical to mine in symetry and location.
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I assume its because RP 41 magnum brass is inherently weak in that area.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with your rifle.

As you can see, Remington Peters 41 Magnum brass has failed in that area for others under similar loading conditions (albeit in different firearms).

If it were me, I'd pitch the brass.
 
The rifle is new. But it doesn't hurt to check against this particular brass.

Do this at the range with the muzzle pointing down range. Put one layer of masking tape on the head of a round. Try closing the action on the round. Keep adding layers of tape till you feel resistance on the lever. Don't force the action close, just detect the first hint of resistance.

Each layer is about 0.004". 2 layers or less is OK. 3 is no good. 4 or more is schlect.

-TL
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I've done an "improvised" headspace check on other rifles before--but not with masking tape (which is kinda thick) but with clear scotch tape which is thinner--are you sure about masking tape?

Thanks.
 
Any tape will do, as long as you measure the thickness of each layer. I use the blue wrinkled masking tape for paint jobs. The thickness is about 0.004" per layer. Scotch tape is thinner so you may have better resolution. But it matters little as I just want to have an estimate on the headspace, or head clearance as certain purist forum experts would insist calling.

-TL
 
If it were me, I'd pitch the brass.
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I'm already pulling my other RP loads out and taking them apart. I'm going to duplicate the load with winchester and starline brass--and unless they fail in the same way into the dumpster the RP goes.
 
With galling of the XTP and the case accompanied by a heavy crimp, the bullet may have simply ripped the case in half. If you are feeling a lot of resistance withdrawing a case from the expander, you may be drawing the brass. That would be from a really tight sizer. I cull all my R.P head stamps in other calibers. All my 41 is Starline. I don't pitch them though, since they will fit a lead bullet diameter. The thin case wall of the Remington R.P allows the sizer to leave the ID oversized enough so that a jacketed bullet is not tight enough to even stand for seating. The fatter lead works okay. R.P may not be worth the trouble, if you have alternatives. I see most of mine in 38 Special, often left lying as once-fired at the range.
 
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