.40S&W Why the haters?

I don't have anything against the .40S&W except for the size of the brass. Sorting would be so much easier if there wasn't so much of the stuff in between 9mm and .45acp. :)

Wouldn't it be nice if there were brass color conventions like used to exist (almost) with shotgun hulls?
 
Yes, .45 is more $$ than .40 now, but prior to the past couple of years WWB .40 was more expensive than either 9mm or .45
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That has not been my experience, and I've owned both for most of the past decade. .45 is twice as expensive, roughly, as 9x19, and .40 splits the difference.
 
While I prefer .45, the .40 is tied with the .357 Magnum in second place. I generally prefer the .40 in smaller autos of Kahr K40 or Glock 27 size and smaller, and the .45 ACP in larger autos.

Why do I like it? Because I feel that the smaller autos that I prefer the cartridge in have some of the best power to size ratio on the market. They offer a big bore round in a gun that can often fit discretely in a pocket.
 
I've got a 9, 40 and a 45 and I find the 40 the least pleasant to shoot of the lot. A 45 has a good deal of recoil but the impulse seems to be slower (the "push" folks talk about) vs. the impulse out of the 40 which does seem to "snap" a bit.

I'm going to switch to a 1911 pattern .40 in hopes that I'll enjoy the experience more (heavier gun, more recoil spring options etc.).

Other than that it's a fine caliber and it's like arguing the merits of .44 WCF vs. .45 Colt - not a lot to it other than personal preference since both will kill you deader'n a doornail.

Regards,
Oly
 
resisting change

People often do not like 40 simply because it is a relatively new round. I believe its unpopularity w/ some people is also because the 40 is often called a 'compromise' round, when it is actually a bigger and faster round; as opposed to the age old smaller/faster and bigger/slower comparison between the 9 and 45.

:p
 
I have never measured the decibels, but the .40 is a very high pressure cartridge. Every person I have ever shot with agrees with me that .40 is louder. If you can show me data that say that .40 is not louder than the other two, then I will concede the point. Until then, I will maintain that it is louder.
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Okay, got to page 4 of this article, it lists 9mm, .45, and .40 all at 165db
http://www.surefire.com/images/articles/pdf/Dangerous_Decibels.pdf

The same high pressure that gives you a fast bullet and a loud bang also give a sharp pulse of recoil. I have fired HK, Sig, Glock etc. guns of similar size but differing calibers and the .40 is always snappier than the 9 or 45. The 9 is a small quick pop, the 45 is a bigger slower push, and the 40 is a bigger snap. It has less push than 45 but more snap than 9.
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I think this ".40 snap" is largely placebo or imagined. The numbers just don't reconcile wih this myth.
 
I think this ".40 snap" is largely placebo or imagined. The numbers just don't reconcile wih this myth.
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Agreed. I think the appropriate term is, "It's all in your head". Given a pistol made from the same material and having the same weight and configuration (apples to apples), the .45 ACP has more recoil than does the .40 - period.
 
i don't hate the 40 cal, i just don't own one. i just never saw the need, kinda like why i don't own a 22-250 or a 338 mag rifle. my son has one that he likes, i have shot it and it's accurate and pleasant to shoot. he also has a s&w 1911. push come to shove i believe he likes the 45 s&w better tho. me, i have 7 different 45's and 6 9mm's. i subscribe to the "kiss" system, 2 semi auto calibers are enuff for me. people that shoot 40's are ok in my book, means there is more 9mm and 45 ammo for me.
 
I don't hate the .40?

I love'em all to be honest but the .45 still
holds that special place in my heart. :D
 
First, I don't hate the .40 SW but I don't shoot it. In semi-autos, I like .45 acp or move down to 9 mm when I want a smaller gun or a hi-cap gun. While the .40 SW outperforms the 9mm, the gap in practical performance has shrunk with the development of modern hollow points.

The FBI was using 9 mm Silvertips in the Miami Shootout. There were a number of fatal wounds but only one bullet could be said to have failed to adequately penetrate to a vital organ. It stopped about a 1/4 inch short and, if memory serves correctly, it hit the bad guy at a side profile. This lead to the 12 inch penetration standard. I don't mean to say the 9 mm is better than the .40 SW.

Regarding decibels. One post states the .45 acp is the same loudness a that of the .40 SW and references page four of the article at http://www.surefire.com/images/articles/pdf/Dangerous_Decibels.pdf. I have to question the accuracy of the article. In at least one respect, it is contrary to my own experience and probably that of most shooters. It states the .45 acp has a level of 165 dB while the .357 Magnum has a level of 160 dB. There is no way a .45 acp is louder than a .357 magnum. I don't shoot .40 SW so cannot comment authoritatively on the sound level

I rather quickly found another source which also disagrees that the .45 acp is louder than a .357 magnum. See http://9x19mm.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=328&p=3909. Unfortunately, it did not list .40 SW.

The questionable accuracy of the sound chart, however, is not my main point.

Snappy recoil. If you look at typical .40 SW loads, their weights, and their muzzle velocities, they may or may not have slightly more momentum leaving the barrel than the typical .45 ACP (standard pressure) rounds using the formula of Momentum = Mass x Velocity (muzzle velocity).

However, the more relevant formula is that of Force.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Acceleration, and thus Force takes Time into consideration. If a given mass accelerates more rapidly, there is a greater resulting force. Since the typical .40 SW bullet has a higher acceleration than the typical .45 ACP bullet, it will have a significantly higher Force.* You feel this higher force in the recoil of the firearm. Think of it as the same total Momentum but experienced in a shorter time frame. That's why the .40 SW feels snappier.

Unfortunately, I've been out of school long enough that demonstrating specific examples is a bit of a challenge. Perhaps an engineer or someone can back me up on this or show that I'm full of it.

*BTW, it will also have a significantly higher Kinetic Energy (1/2 Mass x Velocity x Velocity).
 
.40 is usualy AT LEAST 25% cheaper than .45, usually 30-50%.
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Hmmm....I had been paying $28 for a box of .45 ACP HydraShoks and $25 for the same in 9mm. Are you telling me that I could have been buying .40 HydraShoks for $21 at most, and possibly even $14? Cite, please!
 
I wrote I like recoil. Maromero wrote,
May I suggest a 10mm?
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You (sort of) missed my point. A 10mm won't fit any of the guns I listed.

But if they start making the Walthers P99 & PSP, XDm, et al. in 10 mm, it will be time for me to start trading in all my semi-autos. :D

I wish to Hell 10mm WOULD function in my .40s.

I'm not sure how controllable a lightweight gun like the P99 would be with full power 10mm loads - but I'd love to find out! :rolleyes:
 
Here's part of an old post from TFL in 2000.......... FWIW

free recoil=

(weight of the bullet X muzzle velocity + 4700 X weight of powder charge)squared
_____________________________________________

64.348 X weight of gun in pounds


with this formula you can figure free recoil of any gun/load combo per Lyman manual 46th ed.
 
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Hmmm....I had been paying $28 for a box of .45 ACP HydraShoks and $25 for the same in 9mm. Are you telling me that I could have been buying .40 HydraShoks for $21 at most, and possibly even $14? Cite, please!
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Yeah, $15-$20/50 is about right for the hydrashoks, considering they're an obsolete design, but many places still charge more. I'm mostly going off what I see in my local stores when I said .40 was 20-50% cheaper than .45. For some reason my local places (cabela's, academy) really mark up .45. It's always $40/box for basic FMJ it seems like.

50 round Sellier & Bellot http://www.natchezss.com/
45 ACP- 23.99
40 S&W- 21.49
9x19mm- 15.49

500 rounds Federal Hydrashok http://www.ammoman.com
45 ACP - $450
40 S&W - $400
9x19mm - $390

25 rounds remington golden saber http://www.cheaperthandirt.com
45 ACP- $49.98
40 S&W- $39.79
9x19mm- $39.79
 
Dragon55 --

You're correct that you have to take into consideration the weight of the powder charge. If we're talking about guns of equal mass, say a 1911, then this is a non-factor.
 
KyJim

This isn't quite apples and oranges but does go to weight of gun and recoil.

I had a Marlin12ga magnum coach gun 20" barrels.
At the time I also had a Mossberg 12ga magnum bolt action with a 36" barrel.
Believe me ... there was a massive difference in felt recoil in those 2 guns using the exact same ammo.

I'm not totally comfortable with the formula I found and posted above but try as I might I can't 'shoot any holes' in it ..... yet.
 
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