Originally posted by The Verminator
No, as I recall, the original (and rather silly) claim was that all the agents COULD have had automatic weapons and by refusing to take them it was their own incompetence that got them killed and wounded.
Yes, I stated that they could have all had automatic weapons based on the undisputed fact that
some of them already did. It was you, sir, you then claimed that one M16 and one MP-5 were the
only automatic weapons to which the entirety of the taskforce had access. I find this highly unlikely for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, Special Agent McNeil,
who was the taskforce leader, was present at the shooting and did not have either of the automatic weapons. Now, I would think that as the taskforce leader, McNeil could have had the pick of whatever weapons he'd like from those available. If McNeil did not, as you claim, underestimate Platt and Mattix, then why would he not have taken one of the two available automatic weapons for himself?
Secondly, Special Agent Grogan was not only a 25 year veteran of the Bureau (the most senior of all those involved in the shooting), but also renowned as an excellent marksman as can be seen in this link:
https://www.fbi.gov/audio-repository/news-podcasts-inside-miami-shootout-anniversary.mp3/view
Grogan was a 25-year veteran, a serious man and one of the Bureau’s best shots.
When McNeil was assigning who would be armed with what, it would seem to make the most sense to arm the most senior member of the taskforce who was "a serious man and one of the Bureau's best shots" with one of the two automatic weapons. Yet not only was Grogan bereft of a machine gun, he wasn't armed with any sort of long gun at all.
Finally, according to this link, "By the early 1950s, Miami was staffed by more 150 special agents and support personnel."
https://www.fbi.gov/history/field-office-histories/miami
Given that that number almost certainly went up in the intervening 30+ years, two strikes me as a rather low number of automatic weapons for a field office with so many agents.
No, I find it far, far more likely that the taskforce did not have more automatic weapons because they did not elect to take them. This is notion is reinforced by the fact that they demonstrably failed to take numerous other preparatory steps like already having their vests on, having speed loaders for their revolvers (we know they were available, two were found in one of the FBI cars), having their firearms secured on their persons so as not to be lost in a car crash, or, in the case of McNeil specifically, having his shotgun loaded and in the passenger compartment of the vehicle where it could be readily accessed. No, I'm inclined to agree with John that it was some sort of complacency.
That silly claim was part of the original trashing of the agents and blaming them for their injuries and deaths. I found that claim not just offensive but totally false--so.........
Oh I think it pretty obvious to everyone that you're offended. However, the numerous mistakes made by the agents that day pointed out by myself and others are certainly not "totally false." It is an undisputable fact that Manauzzi lost his revolver in the collision because it was sitting unsecured on the seat of his car rendering him incapable of returning fire to Platt and Mattix. It is a matter of fact that Hanlon lost his service revolver because, while in the holster, he did not have the hoster's retention engaged and thus had to resort to his S&W M36 backup gun to return fire. It is documented that, while all the agents present had bullet resistant vests, only one managed to put his on and fully secure it. It is documented that Special Agent McNeil's shotgun was not only never used, but was found unloaded in the trunk of his car. These things are all in the FBI's report. If that report is not completely accurate, as you suggest, then I invite you to either provide us with a more accurate one or take your own advice and retract your claim.
No, what you've done is try to focus on the tiniest minutiae and try to use it to excuse the numerous mistakes that were made that day. You've also accused me and others of speculation and demanded that we cite sources (in spite of the fact that we have) or retract claims when you, yourself have made numerous unsupported claims and, when called out, double down and refuse to retract your own speculation.
You said that one M16 and one MP-5 were the only two automatic weapons to which the taskforce had access. That is a very specific claim, what is it based on? Do you know the inventory of the FBI Miami Field office on 4/11/1986? Let's have it, cite your sources or retract your claim.
You said that "no one was prepared for battle in the 80's" and that the Miami shooting occurred "before the police were militarized" yet you've provided no evidence to back that up. When evidence to the contrary is presented to you, you changed your claim from "before the police were militarized" to "INTENSE militarization of RECENT years". Well how do you differentiate between INTENSE militarization and garden variety militarization? Even the very article you linked to support your claim of police militarization references police among others adopting heavier weaponry, including automatic weapons, as far back as the 1920's and SWAT teams being formed in the 1960's.
Dillinger, the Barker Gang, Babyface Nelson, Bonnie and Clyde were wiped out and law and order prevailed. Things calmed down some.
This completely ignores many historical events of which the FBI was almost certainly aware such as the numerous riots and civil unrest of the 1960's, the Texas University Clock Tower Shooting in 1966, the Newhall Incident in 1970, domestic terrorists like Weather Underground or The Symbionese Liberation Army that were active in the 1970's, or the numerous acts of international terrorism like the Munich Massacre in 1972. The notion that the FBI would not be aware of the possibility of facing heavily armed and determined adversaries in 1986 is, quite frankly, preposterous.