.40 S&W or .45 ACP?
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40 S&W or .45 ACP?
This is an easy question to answer if you do the research. Buy the one that you can shoot the best. Buy the one that feels the best to handle. Buy the one that suits YOUR need and situation. Both calibers have individual differences. Do you want higher capacity? Do you want a bigger bullet? Want a classic weapon? Do you want more firepower? About 1,000+ differences between the two calibers and choices within each caliber in which only you can decide is best for you!
This is an easy question to answer if you do the research. Buy the one that you can shoot the best. Buy the one that feels the best to handle. Buy the one that suits YOUR need and situation. Both calibers have individual differences. Do you want higher capacity? Do you want a bigger bullet? Want a classic weapon? Do you want more firepower? About 1,000+ differences between the two calibers and choices within each caliber in which only you can decide is best for you!
101combatvet
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I'll just pick 9mm than.
A pause for the COZ
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Well I have never seen the point in carrying a 9mm.
If I want small pocket carry I carry .380
In my normal CC rig I can get a 45acp that fits the same form factor. ( notice the connection between the two? Mr John Moses Browning.)
So in my world that 9mm is a tweener.
There is something to be said about the proven history of 230gr's of Whack!
I have never looked at the 40, but I did notice they just came out with a XD's in 40.
Mostly I had heard the 40 beats the heck out of 9mm framed guns that were chambered up to the 40. So I chose to hang with the 45 because its allot less stress on the gun. But thats just what I had heard, never had one.
If I want small pocket carry I carry .380
In my normal CC rig I can get a 45acp that fits the same form factor. ( notice the connection between the two? Mr John Moses Browning.)
So in my world that 9mm is a tweener.
There is something to be said about the proven history of 230gr's of Whack!
I have never looked at the 40, but I did notice they just came out with a XD's in 40.
Mostly I had heard the 40 beats the heck out of 9mm framed guns that were chambered up to the 40. So I chose to hang with the 45 because its allot less stress on the gun. But thats just what I had heard, never had one.
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Evil Monkey
New member
I agree, more "stopping power" and all. Oh and don't forget "hydrostatic shock" too.
I saw a brazilian man on video commit suicide with a 12ga shotgun point blank in the chest. He was pouring out of control and slammed his hand on the table in anger over what he just did to himself. He passed out about 15-20 seconds later from his injury. I can only imagine that if it was a 45acp, he would've died IMMEDIATELY when the bullet hit him. Yeah 12ga ain't worth a crap. It's too weak and can't incapacitate fast enough.
I saw two other guys in a suicide and an accidental shooting both take what appeared to be one round to the heart. They passed out about 30 seconds after they got shot. I know for sure that they were NOT shot with 45's because otherwise they would've DROPPED right then and there. No doubt about it.
I saw this one video of two robbers attack a security guard in a botched robbery. One robber was mortally wounded and paralyzed, yet he was still able to shoot back at the guard and kill him. The robber then passed out and died about 20 seconds later as his buddy tried to get him out of there. If the guard had a 45, especially a 1911 because that's even more deadly, then that robber would have went unconscious RIGHT AWAY when hit and couldn't shoot back.
I saw one guy ripped in half in a car accident trying to pull in his guts and pelvis towards him. The man was in half and still conscious. We know for a FACT that he was conscious simply because he was NOT hit with a 45, especially a 1911 due to it's extra lethal capabilities.
I saw an Iraqi soldier blown up by an IED with his guts everywhere, yet he was still conscious for a while and talking to his fellow soldiers and the camera. From here we can see that IED's are FAR less lethal than a 45acp, especially when it's coming out of a 1911.
45acp is the most lethal cartridge to have ever exited and if those people in those videos I've seen were hit by 45's, especially from 1911's, the outcome would've been far more severe.
A pause for the COZ
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IMOP ( not just mine but) No pistol calibers move fast enough to cause traumatic shock from velocity. All pistol calibers can kill for sure. You can bleed out from a 22 cal hit same as a 45.
What turned the tables for me was learning about the Moro Warriors.
Our 1st fight with Islam.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts
Our guys were issued 38 colt revolvers. The bad guys were jacked up on ( what ever it was they take) and would bind up their extremities so as not to bleed out when hit.
They would charge our guys with a machete and take loads of hits and still get to a guy and chop em to bits before they would die.
The 45acp proved to be an effective remedy for that tactic.
In my mind I did not see much difference in that scenario and a Meth head breaking in at 2 am. Ya want to put em down.
What turned the tables for me was learning about the Moro Warriors.
Our 1st fight with Islam.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/654540/posts
Our guys were issued 38 colt revolvers. The bad guys were jacked up on ( what ever it was they take) and would bind up their extremities so as not to bleed out when hit.
They would charge our guys with a machete and take loads of hits and still get to a guy and chop em to bits before they would die.
The 45acp proved to be an effective remedy for that tactic.
In my mind I did not see much difference in that scenario and a Meth head breaking in at 2 am. Ya want to put em down.
EXCEPT FOR THE STAR FIRESTAR , I find that compact .40s buck more than compact .45s. Perhaps the experience of others is the opposite. It may take some effort to do this, but I'D suggest trying to shoot Bill Wilson's 5x5 skills test (or as much as the local range's rules will allow) with a compact .40 vs. a compact .45, and see what your scores are like.
One needn't necessarily follow the "IDPA Limited Vickers" scoring procedure to discern a trend. The more mathematically rigourous the scoring, however, the better the extrapolations to be made from it.
IDEALLY, you'd do this 3 to 5 times with each pistol, and see which which pistol enables you to shoot the higher score, the majority of times. That's the pistol you should probably carry. I know that that's a lot of ammunition for some folks, but given the mission of the pistol, it's most likely worth it.
One needn't necessarily follow the "IDPA Limited Vickers" scoring procedure to discern a trend. The more mathematically rigourous the scoring, however, the better the extrapolations to be made from it.
IDEALLY, you'd do this 3 to 5 times with each pistol, and see which which pistol enables you to shoot the higher score, the majority of times. That's the pistol you should probably carry. I know that that's a lot of ammunition for some folks, but given the mission of the pistol, it's most likely worth it.
lee n. field
New member
Because a Firestar weighs 2 pounds, empty.
As far as I know, no .45ACPs were ever in the Philippines during the Phil-Am War. (The only one available would have been the 1905.) The Army issued an emergency request for .45 Colt revolvers due to the ineffective .38 Colts, but it was found that the .45 didn't make as much difference as the stories would have us believe. Moros were fanatical muslims and are still causing problems in the Philippines to this day.
Interestingly, one of the short films that is shown when their national anthem is played is a recap of Philippine history, from Magellan to today; One brief scene shows Filipino guerillas attacking an American patrol and hacking them all to death with machetes. They redeem themselves later by showing Filipinos fighting side by side with American against the Japs, however. In general, Filipinos were treated very badly by the Americans during the Phil-Am War.
DOH!
I should actually delete this whole post. Didn't catch the sarcasm.
Monkey, no offense, but it seems that you have stated quite a bit of hyperbole here. Don't get me wrong: I love the .45, but it's not the end all that you make it out to be (and neither is the .40 or 9mm).
Your Brazilian guy shot himself at close range with a 12, but probably missed his heart. If he had aimed a bit lower, he probably would have died instantly. I have dealt with the results of several shotgun suicides, and, when properly done, they don't leave much.
There have been numerous cases of people being shot with .45s that didn't die.
There was a case of a guy who took 13 9mm rounds from a Clearwater, FL cop's Hi-Power when he came out of his bedroom with a .22 rifle. He said: "Why'd ya shoot me? It wasn't loaded." He survived.
Bottom line is where you get hit that determines your fate.
Edit: EvilMonkey, I mistakenly called you "Ironman." Sorry about that. Getting old and the memory is really starting to suck. Especially since the whole thing went right over my head.
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OldMarksman
Staff
We have all read that somewhere, written by people who had read it somewhere else.
But it is not true. The .45ACP was put into service long after the rebellion was over.
We have heard that .45 revolvers were sent over there. They were issued with the shorter .45 cartridge that could be used in the Schofield.
We have never seen anything that would substantiate the popular belief that they were "effective".
Evil Monkey
New member
By the way, those videos I saw were real incidents.
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g.willikers
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The .40 just never made any sense to me.
Didn't it come about mostly due to the Miami incidence of 1986?
One of those solutions in search of a problem - the wrong problem?
Either a 9mm or .45 seems to be all that's needed, depending on personal preference.
Didn't it come about mostly due to the Miami incidence of 1986?
One of those solutions in search of a problem - the wrong problem?
Either a 9mm or .45 seems to be all that's needed, depending on personal preference.
A pause for the COZ
New member
That may be true, fact is I was not there. So any thing is I say is what i think about it.
But I am sure that event instigated the 45 acp. And I am pretty sure they did dig out some of the old 45 colt revolvers to use there after the events started.
There is quite a bit of evidence that traumatic shock, hydrostatic shock, remote wounding effect, effects from temporary cavity or whatever you want to call it can certianly happen at service pistol calibers.
There is a false dichotomy at work with all caliber wars like this as there is no clear line between what will work and what will fail. However good common sense should tell you that making a bigger hole will shorten timers and change some timers to switches.
Evil Monkey
New member
show me from forensic pathology and medical literature please, thanks.
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