This is why I have easy access to multiple loaded rifles on top of my SD/HD guns. I live with hurricanes, tornadoes and bad storms. I don't need a looter mob coming by too starved or greedy to care about me and mine. Go without power for a few days and you'll see what I mean. Back in the day, we had looting problems and a lot of home invasions.
4+1: Enough?
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This is why I have easy access to multiple loaded rifles on top of my SD/HD guns. I live with hurricanes, tornadoes and bad storms. I don't need a looter mob coming by too starved or greedy to care about me and mine. Go without power for a few days and you'll see what I mean. Back in the day, we had looting problems and a lot of home invasions.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
This is an old debate about capacity and whether you:
1. Assume you will hit the target and have disabling effects
2. You have one or two opponents
There is a continuum of incident intensity, so as in statistical decision making, you have to pick a criterion level and take the risks associated with that cut off.
Cliches by Cooper, or whomever, are not that useful in today's world.
1. Assume you will hit the target and have disabling effects
2. You have one or two opponents
There is a continuum of incident intensity, so as in statistical decision making, you have to pick a criterion level and take the risks associated with that cut off.
Cliches by Cooper, or whomever, are not that useful in today's world.
It's a state of mind
Went up against a robber with the only thing I had when I came home to a break in... a scoped bolt action 22 with seven rounds of Xpert on board that happened to be in my truck for varmint control. After calling police, I loaded my gun and waited in my truck until I saw movement in the yard behind some trees. Then I took advantage of surprise and moved quickly and decisively to get the drop on the perp ordering him to the ground. I didn't know if he was armed. There was another I never saw but was watching for. He tried to lie his way out of gun point saying he just wanted water but I held firm and let him know that to move was to die and he could tell his story to the cops. During the stand off he dared me to shoot him so I took better aim and put my finger on the trigger while waiting to see what he was going to do next. He was testing me waiting for me to flinch. In that situation, I would have preferred a 4 and 1 12 gauge with buck but the 22 gave me some stand off distance with the perp over a handgun or shotgun. You don't always get the time to select what weapon you think is best for a situation and often have to make do with what you have at hand. A 9mm on your hip is more effective than a 12 gauge or AR in the car or safe. Even a single shot 20 gauge is better than nothing in a home defense situation but tactics and state of mind is far more important than weapons choice.
Another time a guy showed up on my doorstep one evening asking for a ride, water, a cigarette, to use the phone etc trying to con his way in the house. I offered to make phone calls for him and loaded a 357 rifle
with 38 plinking loads I had been shooting that day. I hid the rifle from view and talked to him through the window. He said he had no warrants but when I finally called the cops to pick him up after several phone calls to people who weren't able to come get him he took off like a jack rabbit. Stupid druggies will say anything to get what they want and will try to play on your kindness asking for water or something innocent to get you to lower your guard. Don't do it! The cops told me another person in the county had been beaten about the head a year before when a guy came asking for water and he opened the door. Criminals will exploit your kindness to gain advantage over you. Having a car drive up and make swiss cheese out of your house certainly can happen but it's not a common situation for most people. Far more common are the random tweekers who don't act logically.
Went up against a robber with the only thing I had when I came home to a break in... a scoped bolt action 22 with seven rounds of Xpert on board that happened to be in my truck for varmint control. After calling police, I loaded my gun and waited in my truck until I saw movement in the yard behind some trees. Then I took advantage of surprise and moved quickly and decisively to get the drop on the perp ordering him to the ground. I didn't know if he was armed. There was another I never saw but was watching for. He tried to lie his way out of gun point saying he just wanted water but I held firm and let him know that to move was to die and he could tell his story to the cops. During the stand off he dared me to shoot him so I took better aim and put my finger on the trigger while waiting to see what he was going to do next. He was testing me waiting for me to flinch. In that situation, I would have preferred a 4 and 1 12 gauge with buck but the 22 gave me some stand off distance with the perp over a handgun or shotgun. You don't always get the time to select what weapon you think is best for a situation and often have to make do with what you have at hand. A 9mm on your hip is more effective than a 12 gauge or AR in the car or safe. Even a single shot 20 gauge is better than nothing in a home defense situation but tactics and state of mind is far more important than weapons choice.
Another time a guy showed up on my doorstep one evening asking for a ride, water, a cigarette, to use the phone etc trying to con his way in the house. I offered to make phone calls for him and loaded a 357 rifle
with 38 plinking loads I had been shooting that day. I hid the rifle from view and talked to him through the window. He said he had no warrants but when I finally called the cops to pick him up after several phone calls to people who weren't able to come get him he took off like a jack rabbit. Stupid druggies will say anything to get what they want and will try to play on your kindness asking for water or something innocent to get you to lower your guard. Don't do it! The cops told me another person in the county had been beaten about the head a year before when a guy came asking for water and he opened the door. Criminals will exploit your kindness to gain advantage over you. Having a car drive up and make swiss cheese out of your house certainly can happen but it's not a common situation for most people. Far more common are the random tweekers who don't act logically.
stephen426
New member
Dragger,
Measure where you would be shooting from to where you could be shooting to and do a shot pattern test. Test you aim under stress with a massive adrenaline dump. After doing that, tell us if you think 4+1 is still enough. If you still think so, add the possibility of more than one attacker.
Home defense is different from concealed carry since you do not need to worry about the size or weight of the gun, since you are lugging it around everywhere. I am a decent shot and I practice fairly often, but I have a larger handgun for self defense instead of my sub-compact 6+1. Do I really believe I will need the extra rounds? Not really, but the larger gun will control recoil better, give me a better sight radius, and I will have the extra shots in case I need it.
I am fortunate to live in a pretty good area where the police response time is really fast. There have still been a couple of home invasions though. I don't really worry about gang style drive by shootings where I live.
I live out in a rural area, and have a few dogs. Odds of someone breaking into my home, low.
Odds of someone breaking into my home WHILE I'm home, lower than that.
Odds of that person being armed while breaking into my home while I'm home, even lower than THAT.
Odds of two armed people, breaking into my home, while I'm home with the will to keep fighting after my 5 rounds 00Buck, HK VP40 (back-up), a German Shepherd, Saint Bernard, two Great Danes, and the Yorky (She's a bitch) over a T.V. that is now probably full of holes or blood? If all those stars align then it's just my time.
I also have a safe with numerous other weapons if needed. I just doubt I'll need several hundred or thousand rounds to run off or stop a pair of 90 pound, tweaked out meth heads.
Odds of someone breaking into my home WHILE I'm home, lower than that.
Odds of that person being armed while breaking into my home while I'm home, even lower than THAT.
Odds of two armed people, breaking into my home, while I'm home with the will to keep fighting after my 5 rounds 00Buck, HK VP40 (back-up), a German Shepherd, Saint Bernard, two Great Danes, and the Yorky (She's a bitch) over a T.V. that is now probably full of holes or blood? If all those stars align then it's just my time.
I also have a safe with numerous other weapons if needed. I just doubt I'll need several hundred or thousand rounds to run off or stop a pair of 90 pound, tweaked out meth heads.
stagpanther
New member
What if they bring tear gas and grenades?
You're calculating the odds wrong. You're more likely to be killed by a hurricane or earthquake first.
You're still calculating it wrong ... Once the bad guy(s) break in, you won't have time to stroll over to the safe and get it open.
After they kill the dogs, you're next - unless you have some form of firepower immediately at the ready. The dogs are effectively your expendable first-line of defense to keep the bad guy(s) occupied while you aim and fire.
stephen426
New member
Dragger34 is from Gainesville. That means he probably has a moat filled with hungry gators, and the mosquitoes will get the ones that make it past the gators.
Go Gators!
Go Gators!
stagpanther
New member
I don't know about statistical odds--but I do know something about "smash and grab" break-in techniques used by gangs having seen them in action several times and caused an attempt on my house to be aborted. Usually they want to be in and out as fast as possible so if they find anyone home it's a miscalculation on their part and they will be just as surprised as you are. What happens at that point depends on who is in on the break-in--but if it's members of the large organized gangs and they are looking to advance their "street cred" while having little fear of killing or being killed--hard to say what they may or may not do.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
I didn't think so----so purchased a Maverick 8 shot security model for a little more than $200---it also has 6 extra shells in a cheap elastic butt cuff.
That way I keep my hunting guns configured as hunting guns too.
That way I keep my hunting guns configured as hunting guns too.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Some shotgun mythology from Denny - one of our SWAT gurus.
https://www.swatmag.com/article/rack-rack-whos-shotgun-myths-misconceptions-truths/
https://www.swatmag.com/article/rack-rack-whos-shotgun-myths-misconceptions-truths/
Anyone run their home defense shotgun with the standard tube? On the Remington 870, that's 4 rounds of #1 buckshot for me:
I love the way the standard tubes with no extension balance and point. They just feel "right", and there is very little to go wrong with them. No problems with feeding due to extension junction points or the extension becoming bent/damaged in some fashion. I believe Dave McCracken was a fan of standard-length mag tubes on defensive shotguns as well, but don't quote me on that.
It's my choice, whether a box stock old school police 870 or a newer version with more "tactical" accessories like a Surefire forend, the 4+1 setup works for me.
But what about you? Do you think 4+1 is fine for home defense, or perhaps not? Please share your thoughts. Thanks gang!
M12
4+1 Federal Flight Control #1 Buck.
Red
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Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I said this about half way through:
We have circled back to the same points with some rather pointless insults (deleted).
This isn't the Double Barrel Joe Biden Capacity Banning Forum.
Closed.
We have circled back to the same points with some rather pointless insults (deleted).
This isn't the Double Barrel Joe Biden Capacity Banning Forum.
Closed.
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