.38spl and a 1 7/8" barrel--crazy?

T

Te Anau

New member
CDNN has S&W 637's and 642's in 1 7/8" barrels for a nice price.The guns are +P rated,but dang even using +P are you gonna get 700fps out of these barrels? The 642 looks like a nice carry piece but I bet its got a 12lb trigger.That makes the 637 more attractive.Anyone have both,how do they compare?
What is an "Airweight" frame made of? Can these take constant +P or only occasional use?
 
People have been using these short barrels for decades, with great success. I've owned both Centennial and standard-hammer J-frames, and don't recall the DA trigger pull being any heavier on the DAO Centennials. Airweight frames are made out of aluminum. You might email S&W for an answer to your question regarding how much +P ammo the guns can take . . . in any event, I suspect most people don't fire anywhere near as many +P rounds as they do standard pressure rounds.
 
According to the S&W rep i talked to at a local store where they were having a sale on S&W guns, the new Airweights were made for +p's. He was telling everybody about the new Gold Dots +p's being developed especially for snubbies.

In the December 2002 issue of Handguns magazine the tested several different brands and grains of .38 special ammo for use in snubbies. All test were done at DVC LABS in Lexington,SC. using 10% ordnance gelatin. Each bullet was tested
using bare gelatin and gelatin covered with three layers of cloth.

The top four were=

Federal +p 125b gr Nyclad @ (averaged) 871 fps
Winchester +p 125 gr Silvertip HP @ (averaged) 725 fps
Winchester +p 130 gr SXT Personal Protection @ (averaged) 822 fps
Speer Gold Dot +p 125 GDHP @ (averaged) 824 fps

Penetration and expansion was empressive in all four rounds.


Erich,
I'll agree that most people don't shoot that many +p's through their snubbies. I usually shoot 148 gr wc's or 158 swc's then finish up with 2 or 3 cylinders full of +p's.
 
Snub not so bad

What other smallbore pocket gun can throw a 158 grain hollow point out? not a .380! I would be interested to compare muzzle energy of the hollow point lead 158 plus P compared to the lighter JHP's. I think the LHP has a track record as compared to the latest 125 gr. loads. Maybe some more recoil but in a model 60 and a 640 with Uncle Mikes grips, they sure don't hurt your hand or anything like that. Lightweight guns probably might! And the LHP rounds do open up at the lower velocities due to their softness, no jacket to peel back. And don't shoot low with the fixed sights.
 
P.s.

Also, you can smooth out and reduce the trigger pull on a J frame to a good extent by getting a spring kit from Brownells. Not very expensive. And cleaning out the factory crud and properly lubing the guts helps on top of that.
 
Was just outback shooting my 642 tonight. Don’t put a lot of +p’s through it, usually stick with 125gr sp or 158gr swc. Dang accurate for such a short barrel, and I’ve always liked a heavier trigger. :cool:
 
1 7/8 inch barrel?

It seems that a 1 7/8 inch barrel is too short to build enough velocity aand muzzle energy to do any good.
I think I would weather have a DAN WESSON without a barrel...it would produce the same.
 
1 7/8" is the standard barrel length for J-frame snubbies; what most folks refer to as a "Two Inch J-frame" is actually a 1 7/8" J-frame. As far as shooting +P ammo through them, IIRC after '94 they are certified for use with +P's. Trust me, though, you'll probably want to quit before the gun does. ;)

Te Anau said:
Anyone have both,how do they compare?
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I have a 442 and a 37, and I carry the 442 every day as a BUG. I personally think that having a hammer spur and single-action capability on a pocket holstered belly gun is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Have the trigger smoothed and work on shooting the gun well DA.

Te Anau said:
What is an "Airweight" frame made of?
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Aluminum, with a steel cylinder and barrel.
 
My 642 is a no-dash critter and is not rated for +P ammo, so I make my own that 'on paper' are max for regular .38's using 125 gr. XTP's. They make 750 fps from the little thing, but I would never call this gun accurate. Maybe I just have a poor example. Or maybe its just too unpleasant to practice enough with to get really good at it.
 
Pappy John,

Pappy John said:
They make 750 fps from the little thing, but I would never call this gun accurate.
Click to expand...

How does it shoot from a rest? Does it group heavier bullets better than the 125's?
 
I have better accuracy with the 148 Target Wadcutters and 158 gr LSWC - standard pressure. Granted these were older models, have noticed on the newer snubs from Smith, Ruger and Taurus the same results For ME.

I consider these up close and personal guns, tho' I shoot them at distances, with the loads they like they are quite accurate. I only shoot these DA, even if it has the exposed hammer. I really like the 158 gr LSWC -HP in standard pressure for carry, if given a choice. I have no qualms carry the 148 gr TWC or 158 gr LSWC.

I shot a 1928 Det Spl , as fast as could and kept the first eleven in a playing card, I blew #12...look up and see a bad shot...

The 130gr FMJ Win bargain load was not near as accurate as the heavier lead loads.

Now a 3" HB RB K frame I shoot , will really shine with 125 gr STHP.

I'm going for shot placement on the snubbie with the load it likes best, seems standard pressure and heavy is best for me.
 
DAO or SA should be same trigger pull. The SA just doesn't cock the hammer as far for DA as it does when you have to pull the hammer back to full cock.

I have 640 and 36. Both will shoot VERY accurately. Last qual for CCW was 293/300 and 296/300 at 15 yards.

I took my kid out once with the 36 and we shot a beer can to pieces with it. Shorter barrel just requires a more precise sight picture.

As to power, have never had to shoot anyone but I would certainly not want to be the one being shot.

They ARE .....DEFENSIVE.....guns. Not aware of any army issuing them.

:D
 
In my experience standard 158 .38 Special ammo loses 40 FPS when fired from a 2" barrel and the +P stuff in 110 and 125 weights lose 75-90 FPS. So the +P 125 from a 4" pistol makes about 925 and the same load from the snubbie makes around 835 or so. I doubt that anyone you shoot will be able to notice the difference. My favorite carry load in .38 Special is a 125 JHP loaded to 1100 FPS clocked from a K frame Smith with a 4" barrel. These register about 1000 FPS from the J frame snub.
 
1 7/8" is the standard barrel length for J-frame snubbies; what most folks refer to as a "Two Inch J-frame" is actually a 1 7/8" J-frame.
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Of course, Tamara is basically right, but it isn't all the info. The standard barrel on a .38spl S&W small-framed snub (J-frame) is 1 7/8". On the .357s they are 2" or 2 1/4" (it has been long enough since I've looked it up I don't remember which- Tamara probably knows off hand though, she's good with that stuff). Taurus (not technically J-frames since that is a former S&W designation, but for all practical purposes when we are talking J-frames most people include/think all small-framed revolvers) uses a real 2" barrel on their .38spls and a 2 1/4" on the .357mag. I don't know if Colt uses a true 2" or not on their 2" small-framed snubs. Of course, for ease, as Tamara said, for all of these most of us just refer to them as a 2" gun. Then again, since you are asking about the 2" (1 7/8") .38spl S&W Airweights all but the info that Tamara gave is pretty irrelevant, but what the heck.






Oh, as for the original questions, they have mostly been answered by others, but...:

The Airweights are aluminum alloy. The barrels, and I believe the cylinder, are steel.

The newer ones are rated for +P, the originals weren't. I think you can shoot the newer ones pretty much exclusively with +P and they will last for quite a long time so I wouldn't worry about it. I'd suggest regular .38spl for practice but that is to save your hand not the gun. Now the older guns are a different animal, they aren't +P rated, and on those I'd limit my +P use.

With a shorter barrel there are concerns about expansion. However, there are several older loads that are still popular that are good in a snub (158gr SWCHP, 158gr SWC, and 158gr LHP) are there are also several newer hollowpoints that are reputed to do just fine in a small snub. The new 130gr Gold Dot looks especially interesting.

I don't think a DAO gun will have any worse of a trigger pull than the DA of a SA/DA revolver. Of course you don't have the SA pull as an option if you don't like the DA pull, but since these are meant as defensive guns I don't see that as a problem. Using the SA pull on a defensive revolver will take extra time that you shouldn't be using and if you will be using the DA in a defensive situation you should be practicing with it (this isn't a target gun). Anyway, the DA trigger on my DAO Taurus 85CH is quite nice, so if anything, I'd believe that the DAO revolver probably has a better DA pull than the SA/DA gun does.
 
How does it shoot from a rest? Does it group heavier bullets better than the 125's?
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Sorry I didn't get to answer you yesterday, Tamara....workin' on stuff around the house all weekend and only have time for the computer over lunch...like now.

I never have tried 148's or 158's in it. The lighter bullets already feel like a bee sting in the hand when I light one off, so I've tended to stick with 110 Hydro-Shocks or my own XTP creations.

Off the bench at 30 ft, where every other gun in my safe would be punching out the 'x' this is more like a buckshot pattern at 6 o'clock. If it was meant as a target pistol it would bother me, but I classify this gun as a special purpose type....close up defense. If I ever have to use it for that purpose I'll probably be point shooting anyway and that's how I practice with it, so the fact that I'm not shooting all 10's with it doesn't bother me all that much. I just know that if I want to shoot a real satisfying looking target I'd better pick another revolver.

I do have some heavier bullets in this caliber laying around somewhere though and now you've got me curious....after I've got my weekend projects done I guess I'll start the investigation to see what it's capable of.
 
Curious about the very same issue of velocity in a J-frame snub, I recently chronographed some of my practice handloads against a standard factory load in a S&W 637. I used a Pact Mark IV, 1st screen at a measured 10 ft from the muzzle.

The factory Remington 158 +P LSWC-HP loads used as a control gave an average velocity of 832 fps, with an extreme spread of 22 fps, for a 10 shot string. I was suprised at both the velocity, and the consistency, of the load. Really good ammo!!

My handload was a Carroll 158 LSWC loaded with 4.7 gr Winchester Super Field, WSP primer, mixed brass. Average velocity was 726 fps with an extreme spread of 19 fps. This is my Cowboy Action load and is supposed to be a +P load based on some old data, but I don't think it really is -- there is just too much carbon on the case exterior wall to think that pressures are anywhere near normal, much less +P. Nonetheless, no one should even consider exceeding any published load data, or even trying someone else's pet handload they have worked up in their own guns (standard disclaimer applies -- don't use my load data)! I think this powder too slow for such a short barrel, but it does give great accuracy.

The 637 is usually loaded with Remington Golden Sabers. I haven't chronographed those yet but plan to in the future. They are easy to shoot and give me and my girlfriend both playing card sized groups at 10 yards shooting DA rapid. My practice loads, even though a heavier bullet weight, give about the same "feel" and point of impact, with a little better grouping. These little guns will shoot quite well if you put in the practice time. I can get the same card-sized groups at 25 yds consistently with slow aimed SA fire. So can she :D . It is a little harder to shoot the Rem 158 +P load well for any period of time -- after several cylinders full it is easy to flinch a few off target.

I'm really looking forward to that new Gold Dot load!
 
I like my 642. It does over 800 fps with 125 gr Feds. I do not find the trigger pull hard. It shoots well, is light and easy to carry.

I would not want to get rid of mine. I shoot some +P ammunition, but practice with moderate loads.

I was almost tempted to buy another at the CDNN prices.

Jerry
 
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