380ACP, Whats a good SD load?

dean1818 said:
I would look at the new HST, there is a new youtube video that shows it.

Not a personal fan of 380 though... too many choices in small 9mm that are significanltly higher in performance
Click to expand...
Which one? I see one by shooting the bull and it expanded great but only went 8 or 9in

lucky gunner tests showed the opposite, unreliable expansion and over penetration.
 
Sig Sauer makes a 100 grain FMJ . 380 round. Not terribly expensive. Penetration is something a .380 lacks and going with a heavy FMJ round takes care of that to a certain extent. This was the heaviest .380 factory round I saw. Heavier rounds maintain penetration better than high velocity light rounds as the density of the object impacted increases, such as bone.
 
Hmm Im noticing something.. I wonder how critical barrel length is? I mean some of these pocket guns have say 2.5 in barrels vs say 2.7, 2.8, 3in

I've noticed that some of these loads looking at difference sources have different results sometimes strikingly different.

also does anyone know if they make Hornady FTX in a 50 round box? or speer gold dots?
I like to shoot about a 100 rounds of carry ammo to be sure of function.
But in 25 round boxes (70-90cr) man.. that gets expensive and quick.
 
After much online research and a bit of my own testing I chose Critical Defense for all of my in-town carry calibers (.380 auto, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 auto). They aren't the best performers in every performance category, but they appear to be at or near the top in most performance categories in those calibers.
 
JoeSixpack said:
Which one? I see one by shooting the bull and it expanded great but only went 8 or 9in

lucky gunner tests showed the opposite, unreliable expansion and over penetration.
Click to expand...
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

This is a great link,(is this the one that you are referring to?) page up and page down to find the 380. It gives a fair analysis.
Also remember, that if you chose a LCP with a 2 3/4 barrel, you will get 5-7% less velocity, vs. the tested Glock 42, with a 3.25 inch barrel

Any velocity decrease will equate to less penetration, less kinetic energy, and probably less expansion.

As you can see, the choices for 380, that reliably expand, and meet 12-18 inch, FBI suggested penetration are few. The SIG VCrown seems to be the best of the lot.

Many people choose the 380 because it fits a pistol that they can shove in a pocket. It isnt cheaper than the 9mm (9mm Practice ammo is 25-30% cheaper, which adds up over time, if you practice) it doesnt recoil less than some of the smaller 9s.

If you dont pocket carry, its more of a moot point. When I started to CCW, I purchased a smaller CM9. I pocket carried for about 6 months. After thinking about pocket carry and some of the limitations, I moved to IWB only. I do know a few people that use a 380 or a 38 in the pocket as a BUG, which I have also considered


There are trade offs.

For me, a few thoughts on the 380, or any other caliber, in the pocket

1) How do you draw when you are sitting down?
2) How do you draw if your main hand is injured?
3) How do you draw if you are in a tussle, and the fight is on the ground?
4) Practice the Tueller drill, can you do this from a pocket draw?

If you can answer positively on all 4 of these questions, you are a better man than me.


I think everyone agrees a 22 shot is more effective to the heart, than a 45 to the knee. Its documented that police officers actually hit ANY part of the bad guy, only around 30% of the shots fired. They miss the target 70% of the time!
Its due to the immediate stress(and lack of realistic training). (Some of the friends I shoot with drink TONS of coffee before they go to the range, to help recreate tension and stress)

The reality is, under stress, those slow, very accurate shots at the range, just arent going to happen. IF (a big IF) you ever find yourself in a defensive situation, you may HAVE to count on a NEAR MISS to end the fight. (In those cases, I want a bullet that expands and has enough energy)

Its a free country and my opinion is worth half of 2 cents.........

Carry what you like, THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET, if you are a CCWer REALISTICALLY practice, practice, practice. (Fire for a softball size group, with speed, then try to reduce)
A larger gun, left at home isnt protection..
 
Last edited:
dean1818 said:
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

This is a great link,(is this the one that you are referring to?) page up and page down to find the 380. It gives a fair analysis.
Also remember, that if you chose a LCP with a 2 3/4 barrel, you will get 5-7% less velocity, vs. the tested Glock 42, with a 3.25 inch barrel
Click to expand...
Ya that's the one, Like I said given the HST's as an example the they have a wonderful rep in more powerful calibers but 2 tests I've seen them in they preformed different.
Shooting the bull's test out of a Taurus TCP (dunno barrel length) it under penetrated to 8-9 inches, but had consistent impressive expansion.

Lucky gunners test however out of the glock 42 showed over penetration and weak unreliable expansion.. 2 tests with opposite results..

dean1818 said:
As you can see, the choices for 380, that reliably expand, and meet 12-18 inch, FBI suggested penetration are few. The SIG VCrown seems to be the best of the lot.
Click to expand...
Really I was thinking the Hornady FTX looked like the best all arounder.
Reliable although mild expansion, meets minimum penetration.

The XTP looks good also but unreliable expansion.

dean1818 said:
Many people choose the 380 because it fits a pistol that they can shove in a pocket. It isnt cheaper than the 9mm (9mm Practice ammo is 25-30% cheaper, which adds up over time, if you practice) it doesnt recoil less than some of the smaller 9s.
Click to expand...
Im not too worried about the slight increase in practice ammo.
It's not a gun im gonna shoot often, probably won't see more then 50 rounds per range session, What really sucks is the defense ammo seems to only come in 25rnd boxes unlike 9mm where you can sometimes get LE 50 round boxes.

The ammo companies figure they can package defense ammo in 25's and charge twice as much.. talk about milking the consumer.

dean1818 said:
If you dont pocket carry, its more of a moot point. When I started to CCW, I purchased a smaller CM9. I pocket carried for about 6 months. After thinking about pocket carry and some of the limitations, I moved to IWB only. I do know a few people that use a 380 or a 38 in the pocket as a BUG, which I have also considered

There are trade offs.

For me, a few thoughts on the 380, or any other caliber, in the pocket
Click to expand...
The .380 I have coming is a Taurus 738 TCP.
I paid 137 for it NEW, and since I already have some other guns coming it's only gonna cost me an extra 5 on transfers.. I could not say no.
Like I said I didn't even want a .380 but it is smaller and lighter then the already pocketable Taurus 709 I have

The .380 will probably be used for times when I don't wanna get fully dressed but need to make a quick run, or if I need absolute concealment.
I thought the 709 would make a good gun for that but I found it's kinda heavy for sweat pants even though it's small and light.
Hopefully the TCP does better iirc it's nearly half the weight.

In most cases it would not be a primary gun.

dean1818 said:
1) How do you draw when you are sitting down?
2) How do you draw if your main hand is injured?
3) How do you draw if you are in a tussle, and the fight is on the ground?
4) Practice the Tueller drill, can you do this from a pocket draw?
Click to expand...
1. I can but it's slower
2. I can't I admit, But I don't think I can draw my primary gun either under those circumstances.
3. Probably can't if you have both hands busy with the attacker
4. That's tough even with a belt holster, Im a bit slower on pocket draw but I always assumed if I am ever in a SD situation I'll at best be drawing and firing one hand anyway as I'll probably have to fend off with my left hand.
So no I would not be overly confident of passing that drill with a pocket gun but the odds's ain't great pocket carry or not.

Believe me I get it, These little pocket guns are a compromise, For the longest time I resisted them completely.

dean1818 said:
The reality is, under stress, those slow, very accurate shots at the range, just arent going to happen. IF (a big IF) you ever find yourself in a defensive situation, you may HAVE to count on a NEAR MISS to end the fight. (In those cases, I want a bullet that expands and has enough energy)
Click to expand...
In most situations I suspect I'll be firing 1 handed at hip level into the belly and chest of my attacker.
I really think most situations are going to be at bad breath distances.
 
JoeSixpack said:
Really I was thinking the Hornady FTX looked like the best all arounder.
Reliable although mild expansion, meets minimum penetration.

The XTP looks good also but unreliable expansion.
Click to expand...

You may be right..... if done with a 5 inch barrel it could hit the FBI minimums

JoeSixpack said:
1. I can but it's slower
2. I can't I admit, But I don't think I can draw my primary gun either under those circumstances.
3. Probably can't if you have both hands busy with the attacker
4. That's tough even with a belt holster, Im a bit slower on pocket draw but I always assumed if I am ever in a SD situation I'll at best be drawing and firing one hand anyway as I'll probably have to fend off with my left hand.
So no I would not be overly confident of passing that drill with a pocket gun but the odds's ain't great pocket carry or not.
Click to expand...

IWB allows for draw from weak hand and from sitting

I also think that a draw while on the ground in a "tussle" is hard as a IWB, but doable
 
roashooter said:
situation awareness failure??....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Nope, I live in outskirts of a city, close contact with strangers is a constant thing.

Criminals don't telegraph their intent.. when do you draw when someone gets within 10 yards of you?

Situational Awareness is just being aware of who is around you, It does not give you telepathic abilities to read minds and some will attack you with a smile.

The ol' Situational Awareness bit is for people in denial a bad situation can happen to them.
 
Situational Awareness is just being aware of who is around you, It does not give you telepathic abilities to read minds and some will attack you with a smile.
Click to expand...

I must have "telepathic abilities".....never been attacked by someone smiling....but you would think living in a major metropolitan city...I would have many opportunities for "bad breath encounters"....just guess I did not get the memo...
 
So if you live in a city then you must have people pass by you in close range constantly.
What happens when one of them turns on you at arms length?

And how many times have you been attacked roa?

Im not sure if there is enough room here though Maybe you could start another thread called Roashooters encounters and list your experiences I love hearing stories maybe I can learn something.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top