.380?

N

nanney1

New member
Every so often I think about picking up a Ruger LCP II. But, I'm not crazy about the .380 caliber. I would use it for pocket carry and jogging with a belly band.

Tried running with a fanny pack and a S&W 442 but it was a bit heavy and jossled around if it was on my back and was awkward if I switched it to the front. Threw off my stride and wrecked my knees for a month. Probably should have got a belly band then and kept the 442.

Every time I look at an LCP in a gun store I think how small it is but I always hand it back.

Anyone like the LCP II and the .380 caliber? Anyone jog with one?
 
I carry one every time I take a walk, carries in my nylon shorts great. It may only be a .380 but Hell it's still better then a stick.
 
I know where you're coming from. 380acp isn't my preferred caliber, but as someone that jogs outdoors regularly also, I found myself leaving even my smaller 9mm's at home because they were just to cumbersome to run with.

I purchased an LCP strictly for carrying while out running and its gradually become my EDC. It's reliably fed all the brass and steel cased ammo I've fed it.

While .380 isn't ideal, eight rounds with a quick reload available is better than the pistol sitting at home in your safe.

edit to add: Don't overlook the original LCP. They can be had very inexpensively and the trigger on the newer production models really isn't too bad.
 
MandolinMan said:
I know where you're coming from. 380acp isn't my preferred caliber, but as someone that jogs outdoors regularly also, I found myself leaving even my smaller 9mm's at home because they were just to cumbersome to run with.

I purchased an LCP strictly for carrying while out running and its gradually become my EDC. It's reliably fed all the brass and steel cased ammo I've fed it.

While .380 isn't ideal, eight rounds with a quick reload available is better than the pistol sitting at home in your safe.

edit to add: Don't overlook the original LCP. They can be had very inexpensively and the trigger on the newer production models really isn't too bad.
Click to expand...
The reviews on the newer II models really promote the trigger. However, PSA has the LCP for $169 and the lowest I've seen the II recently is $249.
 
My LCP gets almost as much carry time as my compact 9mm edc and more than my S&W 642. With the mag guts kits I have 8 rounds of .380 vs 5 rounds of .38 special in a smaller, slimmer package, which puts the little Ruger in the #2 position.
 
Mines a older one that I've had for a number of years, works great and beats the heck out of my 9mm XD-S that takes my shorts to the floor. All other times it's a G19 or XD-S with a real good leather belt.
 
Some of the newer .380 ammo is performing pretty well. My choice is Critical Defense, but there are others.

The simple fact is that, because the round is smaller, it is possible to design .380 pistols smaller than 9 mm pistols, and they are thus more easily concealed. The margins between the smallest 9 mm pistols and .380s isn't huge, but it isn't zero, either.

I carry a 9 mm most commonly, but when I can't carry IWB, I would rather have a .380 in my pocket than go unarmed. (Mine is a Sig P238, but the concept is the same.) The .380 may not be The Best Round, but it is not inconsequential in its defensive abilities.
 
I have one 380. Its a keltec 3AT. its sole role is as a “workout gun”. Light enough that it clips to my shorts without notice, but its there if i need it.
 
Apparently, jogging is bad for you. If just moving your purse to the front damaged your knees something wasn't right in the first place.
"....380 isn't ideal..." Depends on the ammo and sights on the pistol. Using the right bullet matters. Current Winchester Silvertips aren't as good as the old Silvertip, but they beat an FMJ.
The sights on most .380's are garbage. The Ruger LCP II's in particular are too small for good shot placement. You'd be better off with a 2", .38 Special, revolver.
 
The LCR II is a good gun do not let .380 cal bother you, the class I took they said to use your gun to get away a .380 would work just fine !!
 
I second that! A .380 still beats no gun at all. A .38 may be better but then again a .44 mag would still be better....... The point here is if a .380 is what fills the bill by all means carry a LCP .380, better then no gun!
 
I carry a micro 380 when I can't carry anything else. The LCP II is my favorite of the several I've owned. I prefer to carry a 38 or 9mm or 44 or 45. Sometimes a 380 is all I can carry. It's WAY better than nothing. I can empty my LCP II onto a medium-sized paper plate pretty fast at seven yards, easily. For self defense that meets my criteria for "good enough".
 
Every time I look at an LCP in a gun store I think how small it is but I always hand it back.
Click to expand...

I know exactly how you feel. I did the same thing and not just with the LCP II but every small concealable pistol I could get my hands on.

My H&K USPc was great for most situations but needed something else to "throw in the pocket".

.380 is a good choice. Lethality studies place it in the upper category with evidence showing little to choose from in terms of stopping power a .380 to a .45. In fact, the .380 was one of the best pistol calibers to have in fight according to the data.

380 ACP
# of people shot - 85
# of hits - 150
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated - 16%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%
Click to expand...

.45 ACP
# of people shot - 209
# of hits - 436
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.08
% of people who were not incapacitated - 14%
One-shot-stop % - 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 85%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 51%
Click to expand...

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power

I settled on a 9mm Parabellum over a .380 because I found one I actually thought was a .380 when I first was shown it, the SIG P365. I admit to being a little prejudice towards the 9mmP vs .380, too.

It is a little heavier than the .380's by a few ounces but surprisingly small to hold 11 rounds of 9mm Parabellum.

Get what is right for you and train with it. Being proficient is more important than caliber, make, or model. Just do not get anything smaller than a .380 or will be in the lethality category that has a double the failure to stop rate of the larger calibers.
 
stick with 9mm as a minimum.
Click to expand...

My personal preference too. However I was rather surprised by the quantifiable data.

.380 has a smaller sample size and 9mm Parabellum has one of the larger samples. The data points to the .380 being one of the most effective pistol rounds one can choose.

.380 ACP
# of people shot - 85
# of hits - 150
% of hits that were fatal - 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated - 16%
One-shot-stop % - 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 62%
Click to expand...

9mm Luger
# of people shot - 456
# of hits - 1121
% of hits that were fatal - 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation - 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated - 13%
One-shot-stop % - 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits) - 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit) - 47%
Click to expand...


If we break down the most important elements of a gunfight in terms of lethality and "shooter out of the loop" we find three things:

1. Shot Placement (Accuracy)

2. Number of Rounds in the Target Area (Bring Enough Damage to End the Fight)

3. Caliber - Only in that our Caliber needs to be large enough to be included in the statistical group above the transition point where our chances of a "one-stop-shot" double. (.380 and larger).

So to have the best chance at good outcome should you ever to defend your life or those you love...

1. We need a pistol with good sights. Irregardless of your marksmanship skills, it is much more difficult to hit anything if we have no way of precisely gauging Point of Aim vs Point of Impact.

Although some manufactures are better than others and there is variation we will assume the manufacturer is competent enough to align barrel harmonics and design for reasonable accuracy. I encourage anyone buying a CCW to rent one at the range and shoot it before spending your money.

2. We need capacity to place multiple rounds in the Target Area to end the fight. Our "one-shot-stop" percentages tell us that planning for a minimum of three rounds in the Target Area is required to achieve a 100% stop rate is prudent. The more rounds we can bring to the fight without having to conduct a reload, the better.

3. Caliber needs to be .380 or larger. Although .380 is the "bottom of the scale" it is far from being the bottom performer.
 
I would take a look at the sig p238. Its lightweight,accurate,has excellent sights(night) and you can shoot it all day without it hurting your hands.

However the other issue here is the holster. I think with the right holster you can pretty much carry a large variety of small handguns either in 380 or 9mm. I don't have much experience in that area since in my very liberal state I can only carry to the range and back.
 
Those are interesting statistics. I'm assuming all the data collected is valid (there was a problem in this regard with Marshal and Sanow data but that is off-topic).

Of the .38 caliber-class pistols, the .380 had the second worst failure to incapacitate percentage:

.38spl = 17%
.380 = 16%
.45 acp = 14%
9mm = 13%
.40 S&W = 13%
.44 mag = 13%
.357 mag = 9%

You refer to the number of shots fired until incapacitation --- 1.76 for a .380 and 2.08 for .45 acp. However, if you look at all the calibers listed, the lowest number of shots fired until incapacitation is the lowly .22 at 1.38 rounds. Similarly the .22 had a higher incapacitation rate (60%) by one shot (to the torso or head) than .38 spl, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 acp, and .44 mag (and just one percent below .357 mag). This defies common sense unless there are other factors at work.

Accuracy doesn't explain it (accuracy defined as a hit to head or torso). All the .38 caliber and above handguns had similar accuracy rates except for .45 acp and .44 mag which had higher accuracy rates.

I suspect one thing happening is that those using a .22 tend to be less into guns, or at least handguns. They tend to fire one shot and stop, giving the attacker time to stop. On the other hand, those carrying a .45 acp are probably shooting two or three times quickly (maybe double taps). The same goes for those carrying .40 S&W or 9mm. They are often higher capacity, which encourages shooting multiple times. Thus, there are going to be a number of attackers shot multiple times before having the time to actually stop the attack.

There are probably other factors to take into account, as well. For example, the author mentions data from military encounters was used. A jihadist intent on martyring himself is often going to take more hits to incapacitate than a 16-year old punk who is surprised when somebody fights back. My assumption is that 9mm is used in most of these incidents.

Still, the data is interesting and does confirm that being armed with any gun is better than being unarmed.

BTW, I carry .380, .38 spl, 9mm, and .45 acp at times, so I'm not married to one caliber being the ultimate self-defense caliber.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top