Scattergun Bob
New member
Tom,
And So?
And So?
Last edited:
.380 vs .45 -
- Thread starter roboat
- Start date
Ohio Rusty
New member
At first I thought this was an April fools question ... Then I saw it was serious. First off .... I also carry a Keltec .380 everyday, everywhere, 24/7.
Concealed means just that ... conceal it and carry the danged thing.
If I had my choice of a .45 over a .380, I'd carry the .45 everytime. It is a much better caliber for stopping an attacker. Big holes let out lots of body fluids and cause extreme trauma .... which is why we all shoot hollowpoints. After it gets in and expands, lots of bad things start to happen to the one who took the round. I carry a keltec over a .45 for concealability. I carried a charter arms .44 bulldog last year and it was nice until warm weather came. I like to run around in shorts, T-shirt or Wife Beater shirt (muscle shirt) and sandals. I have almost no clothes on to conceal a revolver the size of a bulldog or a large to meduim framed auto. I don't have the body mass to make big guns disappear esily. Consequently, the KelTec .380 gives me 7 rounds that are 9mm sized (It is a 9MM short!), and it is small enough to conceal with anything I wear. I considered the Rohrbaugh, but I couldn't justify the expense.
So to answer .380 vs .45 ... .45 has all the advantages over the .380 in caliber, no one yet has figured out how to make a .45 as small as a P3AT, which is where the Keltec's carry ability wins hands down. The .45 is a big round and needs a big gun to contain it.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Concealed means just that ... conceal it and carry the danged thing.
If I had my choice of a .45 over a .380, I'd carry the .45 everytime. It is a much better caliber for stopping an attacker. Big holes let out lots of body fluids and cause extreme trauma .... which is why we all shoot hollowpoints. After it gets in and expands, lots of bad things start to happen to the one who took the round. I carry a keltec over a .45 for concealability. I carried a charter arms .44 bulldog last year and it was nice until warm weather came. I like to run around in shorts, T-shirt or Wife Beater shirt (muscle shirt) and sandals. I have almost no clothes on to conceal a revolver the size of a bulldog or a large to meduim framed auto. I don't have the body mass to make big guns disappear esily. Consequently, the KelTec .380 gives me 7 rounds that are 9mm sized (It is a 9MM short!), and it is small enough to conceal with anything I wear. I considered the Rohrbaugh, but I couldn't justify the expense.
So to answer .380 vs .45 ... .45 has all the advantages over the .380 in caliber, no one yet has figured out how to make a .45 as small as a P3AT, which is where the Keltec's carry ability wins hands down. The .45 is a big round and needs a big gun to contain it.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Deaf Smith
New member
Roboat,
First off you are talking about a P3AT. That weapon has very poor sights, poor trigger, poor grip, and low power. It is not a precision weapon.
That means precision shots at almost 7 yards is pretty iffy. And with the low power you do need precision shots if at all possible.
The ones suggesting COM are right for the simple reason the P3AT just does not offer much in the way of precision shot placement for CNS (central nerve system) targets. And the 8 shot capacity of the P3AT does not offer a huge firepower abilty to compensate for it's low power.
The bottom line is, go for COM hits. The downside is the attacker may very well pay you back. But who knows, you might luck out.
First off you are talking about a P3AT. That weapon has very poor sights, poor trigger, poor grip, and low power. It is not a precision weapon.
That means precision shots at almost 7 yards is pretty iffy. And with the low power you do need precision shots if at all possible.
The ones suggesting COM are right for the simple reason the P3AT just does not offer much in the way of precision shot placement for CNS (central nerve system) targets. And the 8 shot capacity of the P3AT does not offer a huge firepower abilty to compensate for it's low power.
The bottom line is, go for COM hits. The downside is the attacker may very well pay you back. But who knows, you might luck out.
Thanks for all the replies...
Remember that line in "Blazing Saddles" when the locals warn the good guy about taking on the huge oaf? "Don't shoot him. You'll just make him mad!" That's the part I would not want to have happen. Or when they fire the old M-1s at Godzilla, who is unscathed, but is now quite interested in the shooters.
I guess it boils down to:
Since I have already decided to engage BG2 (Bad Guy, Big Gun), I must assume that I stand some chance of success. And if I don't think my P3AT can disable a bad guy, then I should reconsider carrying. I think Recon came closest to getting the gist of my poorly-phrased scenario.
Thanks, ScattergunBob, and Tom, for your CCW rules. I took a CCW class 2 days ago. it would have been much more useful if the instructor had presented them. Class was optional, since I have a DD214, but I had hoped to learn something. My Army days are looonnnng gone, and I was a chopper pilot anyway, not a shooter (except for few runs at VC with a minigun - which malfunctioned BIGTIME and convinced me I did NOT want to fly gunships - thank God no friendlies were hit!) Also reconned several areas after Tet where beehive rounds were employed. Ugly.)
As for practice, I am certainly more accurate at 7 yds with my 9mm than with my little Kel-tec, but now have the confidence that at 7 yds I could hit the BG, FWIW.
Plus, I got this way cool Armalaser on it so I can see EXACTLY how scared I am.
Remember that line in "Blazing Saddles" when the locals warn the good guy about taking on the huge oaf? "Don't shoot him. You'll just make him mad!" That's the part I would not want to have happen. Or when they fire the old M-1s at Godzilla, who is unscathed, but is now quite interested in the shooters.
I guess it boils down to:
Since I have already decided to engage BG2 (Bad Guy, Big Gun), I must assume that I stand some chance of success. And if I don't think my P3AT can disable a bad guy, then I should reconsider carrying. I think Recon came closest to getting the gist of my poorly-phrased scenario.
Thanks, ScattergunBob, and Tom, for your CCW rules. I took a CCW class 2 days ago. it would have been much more useful if the instructor had presented them. Class was optional, since I have a DD214, but I had hoped to learn something. My Army days are looonnnng gone, and I was a chopper pilot anyway, not a shooter (except for few runs at VC with a minigun - which malfunctioned BIGTIME and convinced me I did NOT want to fly gunships - thank God no friendlies were hit!) Also reconned several areas after Tet where beehive rounds were employed. Ugly.)
As for practice, I am certainly more accurate at 7 yds with my 9mm than with my little Kel-tec, but now have the confidence that at 7 yds I could hit the BG, FWIW.
Plus, I got this way cool Armalaser on it so I can see EXACTLY how scared I am.
Covert Mission
New member
There's the story of the Texas Ranger who, when asked why he carried a .45 said, "Because they don't make a .46!"
Rob Leatham, USPSA superstar, carries a .380 I've read, but then he can shoot the eyes out of a gnat in record time, on demand.
I carry, and compete USPSA with, a 9mm. Ammo's less expensive, and the premium defense rounds will do the job if I do mine, I believe. I do carry a .45 sometimes for the same reason the Ranger did...big hole. FWIW.
Rob Leatham, USPSA superstar, carries a .380 I've read, but then he can shoot the eyes out of a gnat in record time, on demand.
I carry, and compete USPSA with, a 9mm. Ammo's less expensive, and the premium defense rounds will do the job if I do mine, I believe. I do carry a .45 sometimes for the same reason the Ranger did...big hole. FWIW.
380
First, a 380 in my meager opinion is only a backup gun. But if its all you have and your life is in danger I agree with the others, go for center mass first, a shot to the spine will neutralize him even if it doesn't go through. The head is a good choice but it's hard to hit and the head shot is not as successful as it is on TV. Human skull is much harder than people realize. Many people have survived from a head shot. Unless you hit a vital organ or spine the 380 will probbably not immediately stop him anyway. Although I have seen people killed with a 22 calibre to the chest. It was a direct hit to the heart though.
First, a 380 in my meager opinion is only a backup gun. But if its all you have and your life is in danger I agree with the others, go for center mass first, a shot to the spine will neutralize him even if it doesn't go through. The head is a good choice but it's hard to hit and the head shot is not as successful as it is on TV. Human skull is much harder than people realize. Many people have survived from a head shot. Unless you hit a vital organ or spine the 380 will probbably not immediately stop him anyway. Although I have seen people killed with a 22 calibre to the chest. It was a direct hit to the heart though.
Deaf Smith
New member
Maybe slowfire Wuchak, but slowfire is not the mission of a defensive pistol.
with the recent shooting in a Nebraska mall(he was armed with SKS) I asked myself this very question.ran through the various sceneros and came to this conclusion.first you would have to quickly survey situation and if I decide I need to shoot.take as much cover avaliable take aim right between the shoulder blades at the base of the neck and pour as many as I can there.Win or die trying.
The short version is if you're forced to engage with a .380 you engage.
The .380 out of a 2.75" barrel (as wimpy as it is) will still make the FBI minimums with the correct ammo. If you can put the bullets where they need to go they will drop the attacker as well as anything else.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380acp 90gr Federal Hydra-Shok (light clothing).html
Also a +1 on the surprising accuracy of the P3AT. I've shot groups well enough to pass the qualification for concealed carry in my county (79 cumulative 10 rds on an NRA B8 at 25 yds).
Now having said that, if you don't trust the thing to get the job done then don't carry it. One sure way to die is to pull out a pistol and hesitate to pull the trigger because you're not confident in it.
Deafsmith,
I'm gonna test that hypothesis out this summer. I'll be running BUG class IDPA with a P3AT. It seems to doubletap pretty well in practice.
The .380 out of a 2.75" barrel (as wimpy as it is) will still make the FBI minimums with the correct ammo. If you can put the bullets where they need to go they will drop the attacker as well as anything else.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/380acp 90gr Federal Hydra-Shok (light clothing).html
Also a +1 on the surprising accuracy of the P3AT. I've shot groups well enough to pass the qualification for concealed carry in my county (79 cumulative 10 rds on an NRA B8 at 25 yds).
Now having said that, if you don't trust the thing to get the job done then don't carry it. One sure way to die is to pull out a pistol and hesitate to pull the trigger because you're not confident in it.
Deafsmith,
I'm gonna test that hypothesis out this summer. I'll be running BUG class IDPA with a P3AT. It seems to doubletap pretty well in practice.
Deaf Smith
New member
GoSlash,
That's the way to find out just what you can do with what you have. I shoot IDPA to. Real good for a test bed of both your carry gun and your gear.
I've got a P3AT, as a backup/ankle gun. If I do a real good squeeze, I can hit fairly well out to 20 yards, but precision shooting is mighty hard with that weird set of sights they put on it.
Now my Colt 'Government Model' .380, well that's another matter. Buffalo Bore makes a .380 load that gets 1200 fps and the locked breach Colt can take it. Pity it's now a collectors item.
That's the way to find out just what you can do with what you have. I shoot IDPA to. Real good for a test bed of both your carry gun and your gear.
I've got a P3AT, as a backup/ankle gun. If I do a real good squeeze, I can hit fairly well out to 20 yards, but precision shooting is mighty hard with that weird set of sights they put on it.
Now my Colt 'Government Model' .380, well that's another matter. Buffalo Bore makes a .380 load that gets 1200 fps and the locked breach Colt can take it. Pity it's now a collectors item.
Bob
Not That I endorse having a go just because you have a BG's back. Because anything you do will have to be examined by someone spineless and wearing a expensive suit.
If you HAVE to stop said BG to save someone else life I believe you should (with or without) a gun.
Why would I say/do that
I am AD AF and have been for 10 years. I served as SF for the first 3 years of enlistment. I am more then a little familiar with the use of force model, and know if you can stop a imminent life or death situation of yourself or someone else you are justified to use minimum force needed to stop life or death situation.
I never said grab the heater and send a clip down range.
The run and call the cops is a given but if you can bring the victim and the BG's gun with you that would be better then leaving them to die.
However I am a SABC/CPR instructor so if the victim became a victim due to my lack of action or the BG was injured by the smash over the head with a __pick something hard_ I would administer necessary care to keep them alive until the EMT came with the police.
I do thoroughly plan on studying your rules and holding on to them for when I get back from round 3 at the war I will be buying a auto and going to class for CCW.
Not That I endorse having a go just because you have a BG's back. Because anything you do will have to be examined by someone spineless and wearing a expensive suit.
If you HAVE to stop said BG to save someone else life I believe you should (with or without) a gun.
Why would I say/do that
I am AD AF and have been for 10 years. I served as SF for the first 3 years of enlistment. I am more then a little familiar with the use of force model, and know if you can stop a imminent life or death situation of yourself or someone else you are justified to use minimum force needed to stop life or death situation.
I never said grab the heater and send a clip down range.
The run and call the cops is a given but if you can bring the victim and the BG's gun with you that would be better then leaving them to die.
However I am a SABC/CPR instructor so if the victim became a victim due to my lack of action or the BG was injured by the smash over the head with a __pick something hard_ I would administer necessary care to keep them alive until the EMT came with the police.
I do thoroughly plan on studying your rules and holding on to them for when I get back from round 3 at the war I will be buying a auto and going to class for CCW.