380 tulammo seems a little hot
- Thread starter georgiacatweazle
- Start date
JD Berg Quote: The Federal Champion aluminum cased ammo is better and cheaper when in stock. He is what only 100 rounds of federal aluminum cased 9mm will do to a brand new unfired LC9, the gun went back to Ruger for a new slide. Primer Blowby from this ammo was so bad that it caused a flame cut ring around the firing pin hole the slide had to be replaced with only 100 rounds of this ammo. I stay away from this ammo, but I have used CCI blazer without issue.
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9x18_Walther
New member
If multiple cartridges from the same box don't feel the same you should raise a red flag. It might be a minor issue until you have a squib (that you don't notice) or an overcharged round.
Cocojo;
Federal, CCI and Blazer are all owned by the same parent company, Vista Outdoor. That Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo at Wal-Mart is specifically packaged for Wal-Mart and nowhere else, it has a product number that begins with "WM".
Now, take a look at the Federal Champion brass cartridges-- they are extruded, exactly the same type of brass that CCI Blazer Brass uses, and notice that Wal-Mart doesnt carry Blazer Brass any more. And the Fed Champion brass cased ammo comes packaged in the exact same white plastic trays most recently used with CCI Blazer Brass.
So Vista Outdoor owns CCI, Blazer and Federal . I have heard that the Fed Champion Aluminum Case and the Blazer ammo product lines are streamlined and manufacturing of these products is now combined. But I don't know that CCI ammo is going to cease, or even that Blazer Brass is going to cease...
But that Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo at Wal-Mart looks to me like Blazer Ammo in a Federal box, and as I mentioned earlier, I'd be willing to bet that Vista Outdoor is simply consolidating some of their products.
Sorry to hear about your problems with your LC9. I'd recommend that you don't shoot any more Blazer Ammo with it. For the record I've shot Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo from my Glock 17 & 21, my CZ-75B, my HK P30 9mm and my HK45, my Sig P225, P228, and my P-226-40, and my BHP 9mm. Never had a problem with it in three different calibers.
Federal, CCI and Blazer are all owned by the same parent company, Vista Outdoor. That Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo at Wal-Mart is specifically packaged for Wal-Mart and nowhere else, it has a product number that begins with "WM".
Now, take a look at the Federal Champion brass cartridges-- they are extruded, exactly the same type of brass that CCI Blazer Brass uses, and notice that Wal-Mart doesnt carry Blazer Brass any more. And the Fed Champion brass cased ammo comes packaged in the exact same white plastic trays most recently used with CCI Blazer Brass.
So Vista Outdoor owns CCI, Blazer and Federal . I have heard that the Fed Champion Aluminum Case and the Blazer ammo product lines are streamlined and manufacturing of these products is now combined. But I don't know that CCI ammo is going to cease, or even that Blazer Brass is going to cease...
But that Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo at Wal-Mart looks to me like Blazer Ammo in a Federal box, and as I mentioned earlier, I'd be willing to bet that Vista Outdoor is simply consolidating some of their products.
Sorry to hear about your problems with your LC9. I'd recommend that you don't shoot any more Blazer Ammo with it. For the record I've shot Federal Champion Aluminum Case ammo from my Glock 17 & 21, my CZ-75B, my HK P30 9mm and my HK45, my Sig P225, P228, and my P-226-40, and my BHP 9mm. Never had a problem with it in three different calibers.
carguychris
New member
^^^ Does Federal/Blazer/Vista even offer the aluminum-case "Wally World Special" in .380? I've never seen it.
FWIW I recently helped some people practice and qualify for their CHL and bought several hundred rounds of the aluminum-case 9mm because I wanted cheap throwaway ammo for use at an indoor range that didn't allow steel. My experience matches JDBerg's: several hundred round run through an M&P9, an M&P9c, and a Beretta 92S with zero issues. The stuff was even reasonably accurate, although I've now stopped using it because WW has brass-case Perfecta on rollback for the same price.
However, IMHO this is somewhat of a thread hijack if the aluminum stuff isn't offered in .380.
FWIW I recently helped some people practice and qualify for their CHL and bought several hundred rounds of the aluminum-case 9mm because I wanted cheap throwaway ammo for use at an indoor range that didn't allow steel. My experience matches JDBerg's: several hundred round run through an M&P9, an M&P9c, and a Beretta 92S with zero issues. The stuff was even reasonably accurate, although I've now stopped using it because WW has brass-case Perfecta on rollback for the same price.
However, IMHO this is somewhat of a thread hijack if the aluminum stuff isn't offered in .380.Not only does Blazer make .380 ACP ammo but they make 9X18 Makarov ammo as well. My bud has a Century Arms CZ 82 in 9X18 Mak AND a CZ 83 in .380 ACP, and he often shoots Blazer through both. The Cabelas I go to will often have the 9X18 and the .380. The barrels on these 2 guns are interchangeable but that CZ 82 in 9X18 absolutely outshoots the 83 in .380. The Hornady Custom XTP ammo in 9X18 is very good stuff! So if you can find one of these Century Arms CZ 82's in 9X18 at a decent price, which is south of $300, buy it!
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9x18_Walther
New member
Out of curiosity, does anyone actually know if Federal Champion is only intended for sale at Wal-Mart? I've seen lots of Champion at Cabelas and various online retailers, so the WM prefix never made a lot of sense in this regard.
It might be that the ammo was originally designed for sale in Wal-Marts only, and then later Federal expanded its sale to other retailers. That at least appears to be the case these days.
Not a big fan of Champion. Not sure of the .380 ACP, but some of the 9mm uses plated bullets (which Federal calls FMJ). It says right on the box not to use it with compensated firearms or for law enforcement since portions of the plating can break off upon impact with a steel target or backstop.
Good to note that WWB (it is called Winchester Metric) is made for odd metric calibers like 9x18 as well. They even sell WWB 7.62x25 Tokarev.
A pause for the COZ
New member
Ha!!! No it aint....
9mm is just a tweener in my world. Not big enough for real work and not as good as .380 for the small stuff.
I suppose if you buy your ammo. 9mm has an advantage. But thats it.
I reload and I shoot many times more .380
Only slightly BSing because I shoot plenty of 9mm too.
I wouldn't give tula to my worst enemy, but that's your option.
I have had two failures with my bodyguard, both stovepipes. the handgun throws brass everywhere, literally everywhere. Left, right, forward, into my face, etc. Don't shoot without glasses.
My stovepipes happened with winchester ammo, which I later found out was "low recoil."
That recoil is insignificant, IMO, even with sig HP rounds. Not painful. A shock when you fire it, but not painful.
I have used remington a few times since then. My accuracy has improved, but I still feel that this is not a particuarly accurate gun. I'm capable of far better than I'm getting.
Try remington. I'm not privy to what the price difference would be, but seriously, I'd pay an extra $5 to get ammo that I have faith in.
I have had two failures with my bodyguard, both stovepipes. the handgun throws brass everywhere, literally everywhere. Left, right, forward, into my face, etc. Don't shoot without glasses.
My stovepipes happened with winchester ammo, which I later found out was "low recoil."
That recoil is insignificant, IMO, even with sig HP rounds. Not painful. A shock when you fire it, but not painful.
I have used remington a few times since then. My accuracy has improved, but I still feel that this is not a particuarly accurate gun. I'm capable of far better than I'm getting.
Try remington. I'm not privy to what the price difference would be, but seriously, I'd pay an extra $5 to get ammo that I have faith in.
JDBerg, here is the difference between Federal Aluminum and CCI Blazer and this is where the problem lies. The CCI is berdan primed and the federals are boxer primed, so the hole is slightly larger on the boxer primed cases which caused the blow-by of flame and gasses. Federal was notified by me about this issue and possible by Ruger, who had to replace my slide on a brand new gun. Ruger was excellent, Kudo's to them, it really was not their fault but the fault of the ammo. I sent them Pic's of this, which are on the Ruger Forum web site. In regards to federal and CCI and Speer the ATK Corporation is the mother ship and I am sure they exchange products to each other. The Berdan holes are much smaller inside the case than the boxer style hole.
AFAIK, the Aluminum case Federal Champion is only available from Wally's. The Cabelas I was at tonight had plenty of the Federal Champion brass case ammo.
LOL - And if you reload, 9mm has an advantage over .380! I lost interest in .380 when CZ dropped the vz 83. I do think that 9X18 Makarov has a ballistic advantage over .380. I'd like to find a Makarov pistol at a decent price, or a Century Arms CZ 82 9X18 Mak like my friend has.
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dnsharpshooter
New member
not exactly relevant here, but i have had zero issues with 45 acp tula out of a RIA 1911
The ballistic superiority is a mere 50+- fps, and turned into Ft Lbs, the superiority of the makarov is only about 10% or so at best.
Your concern should be whether you can get good combat ammo, a dead reliable gun, and the overall quality of the gun/ammunition combination.
My M&P with Sig HP rounds is probably the best combination I could have gotten for my needs. A handgun that would fit in a shirt pocket, Good reliability, and ammo that will probably function as well as any ammo possibly could. The whole point of carrying a gun is that you can conceal it and use it effectively. I don't consider a makarov to fit those criteria, at least for me.
Can't question your logic, friend! I carry an HK P30 9mm with Hornady AG 124 gr.+P JHP's. The gun is reliable & accurate with this ammo, I've been able to get it whenever I need it and although it's not cheap, it's reasonably priced compared to many of the other defensive rounds. My friend's Century Arms CZ-82 9X18 Mak with Hornady Custom 95gr JHP's is would be a solid BUG, if only I could find one like it for myself!
A pause for the COZ
New member
What advantage?? I use about 1/2 the lead and 1/2 the powder per load.
Primers cost the same. SO I recon it cost me 2/3rd the cost to reload .380 compared to 9mm.
Oh but to keep it on topic
I have used the Tula Brass cased in my 9mm with no issue. Brass reloads good too.
Cant say for .380 other than SD loads. i wont actually pay money for loaded .380 ammo.
But I can tell you, having used Tula primers in my .380 loads. if they are the same primers they use in loaded ammo.
Those primers are just too hard for most .380's. My 738 tcp would just choke on the tula's. CCI and Federal no issues at all.
georgiacatweazle
New member
tula is indeed crap ..
ok, got out to the range during lunch with 4 mags of american handgunner HP's, and a box of remington UMC.
the recoil from the UMC was slightly more than the HP's, but consistent in feel, ditto with the HP's. accuracy was good, all 2 inches or smaller groups at 7 yards. if i took out some flyer's i'd be looking at some as small as 1 inch. definitely using tula is a waste of time except for breaking in a gun, which i don't do, i dry fire and rack the slide before first range time.
i also shot a glock 42 (380). it had a few failures, like locking open the slide with rounds left to fire and the trigger not resetting. accuracy wasn't as good as the bodyguard, not close. felt recoil was less however.
so far zero failures with the bodyguard (except some feeding with tula).
ok, got out to the range during lunch with 4 mags of american handgunner HP's, and a box of remington UMC.
the recoil from the UMC was slightly more than the HP's, but consistent in feel, ditto with the HP's. accuracy was good, all 2 inches or smaller groups at 7 yards. if i took out some flyer's i'd be looking at some as small as 1 inch. definitely using tula is a waste of time except for breaking in a gun, which i don't do, i dry fire and rack the slide before first range time.
i also shot a glock 42 (380). it had a few failures, like locking open the slide with rounds left to fire and the trigger not resetting. accuracy wasn't as good as the bodyguard, not close. felt recoil was less however.
so far zero failures with the bodyguard (except some feeding with tula).
rounds have to be shot a couple inches low.