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38 wadcutter accuracy per seating depth
- Thread starter BJung
- Start date
burbank,
You're obsessing over this. When .38 wadcutter ammo loaded flush with the case mouth for Bullseye competition can be fired into 2" at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest, how much more do you really need? Why not test it yourself by loading some flush and some loaded long? Just remember to use a little more powder for those loaded long.
Don
You're obsessing over this. When .38 wadcutter ammo loaded flush with the case mouth for Bullseye competition can be fired into 2" at 50 yards from a Ransom Rest, how much more do you really need? Why not test it yourself by loading some flush and some loaded long? Just remember to use a little more powder for those loaded long.
Don
It can be so, but also depends on the effect of increasing the powder space on powder ignition. One thing well known about shooting lead through revolvers is that uniform diameter cylinder throats with bullets sized to that diameter or a half a thousandth less, tend to be most accurate. Having the bullet bearing surface (the full diameter cylindrical part) have little or no jump to start into the lands helps prevent gas cutting. This is another argument for using the brass the chamber is cut for.
USSR. It's just the tinkerer in me. I can't get to the range often so I like to ask. The outdoor range I go to is 80 miles away and costs $18 all day. I get free lead there too. The other closest range is 37 miles away and costs $30 for 3 hours. No free lead. Plus I have a lot of test loads so I like the first choice. My mom lives up that way too so I usually stop by to say hi.
The outdoor range I go to is 80 miles away and costs $18 all day. I get free lead there too. The other closest range is 37 miles away and costs $30 for 3 hours. No free lead.
Yikes! Guess I'm spoiled having my own pistol range outside my house.
Don
stinkeypete
New member
When I had a pair of Vaqueros I spent a serious amount of time working up accuracy loads. For my guns, I was able to get better groups crimping on a lube groove such that the COL was more like a semi wadcutter and used light target loads of Bullseye in .357 cases. I reckon that the jump to the forcing cone was more of an effect than restricting case volume for my two guns.
The fellas at the range laughed at my “silly looking” long seated wadcutters until they saw how they grouped. You can’t argue with a tight group like that. It took a summer of fiddling to get tuned in. The fellas were in our club level bullseye league and showing up with a pair of vaqueros was a bit of fun as I had a custom bullseye 1911 as my “usual”.
Then I started wondering where all of this deep seating lore came from. I was stumped until I learned about the Smith and Wesson Model 52 that is widely reported to have other-worldly accuracy. Legendary tack driving accuracy- it’s a semi auto that shoots .38 special. Because of dimensions, the cartridge can be no longer than the .38 case. So... S&W sold factory ammo for it and it too was of legendary tack driving accuracy.
I felt no danger in increasing case volume, pressure can only go down until you are beyond plunk test length. For a pair of my single actions, my groups shrank significantly. Your mileage may vary!
Granted, accuracy from the Vaqueros never approached what I hear a good S&W target .38 revolver can do, but going long more than halved my group sizes. Theory is good, learning what works for others is good, but different guns are different when it gets down to the complicated details of bench rested accuracy.
The fellas at the range laughed at my “silly looking” long seated wadcutters until they saw how they grouped. You can’t argue with a tight group like that. It took a summer of fiddling to get tuned in. The fellas were in our club level bullseye league and showing up with a pair of vaqueros was a bit of fun as I had a custom bullseye 1911 as my “usual”.
Then I started wondering where all of this deep seating lore came from. I was stumped until I learned about the Smith and Wesson Model 52 that is widely reported to have other-worldly accuracy. Legendary tack driving accuracy- it’s a semi auto that shoots .38 special. Because of dimensions, the cartridge can be no longer than the .38 case. So... S&W sold factory ammo for it and it too was of legendary tack driving accuracy.
I felt no danger in increasing case volume, pressure can only go down until you are beyond plunk test length. For a pair of my single actions, my groups shrank significantly. Your mileage may vary!
Granted, accuracy from the Vaqueros never approached what I hear a good S&W target .38 revolver can do, but going long more than halved my group sizes. Theory is good, learning what works for others is good, but different guns are different when it gets down to the complicated details of bench rested accuracy.
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Back in the day I shot a Police Practical course with wad-cutters (supplied by the police)
Flush, no idea if the academy loaded them or the bought them.
Wicked accurate. Memory a bit vague, staff was 20-25 who were there so they could shoot (not the highest recommendation for instructors in other parts of the police work!) Big competition between the RMCP and the Troopers (at least in those days)
I think I came in 4th vs the staff (they had a score board up for the staff, don't remember if it was high score or an average). I only shot the course once so I could have dropped down.
Flip was first time (also last) I shot the course and you had to figure out how to deal with speed loaders vs loose ammo and at what point to hand load and what point to use the Speedloaders.
Plus was N frame 357 shooting woodcutters so more like a 22 target. Brand new guns so no getting sandbagged with a worn out dog.
I did get some odd looks and the scorer checked my score so many times I thought I had screwed something up (he just shook his head and told me to go look at the board)
But having come off a years of shooting 41 mag in an N Frame it was a sweet shooting combo.
That said they were seated flush so the 357 length was not accommodated
Now I think they shoot with full rounds for the practice like you would have to use it which makes sense.
Flush, no idea if the academy loaded them or the bought them.
Wicked accurate. Memory a bit vague, staff was 20-25 who were there so they could shoot (not the highest recommendation for instructors in other parts of the police work!) Big competition between the RMCP and the Troopers (at least in those days)
I think I came in 4th vs the staff (they had a score board up for the staff, don't remember if it was high score or an average). I only shot the course once so I could have dropped down.
Flip was first time (also last) I shot the course and you had to figure out how to deal with speed loaders vs loose ammo and at what point to hand load and what point to use the Speedloaders.
Plus was N frame 357 shooting woodcutters so more like a 22 target. Brand new guns so no getting sandbagged with a worn out dog.
I did get some odd looks and the scorer checked my score so many times I thought I had screwed something up (he just shook his head and told me to go look at the board)
But having come off a years of shooting 41 mag in an N Frame it was a sweet shooting combo.
That said they were seated flush so the 357 length was not accommodated
Now I think they shoot with full rounds for the practice like you would have to use it which makes sense.
The light loads were good for avoiding developing a flinch back in police revolver days. But the modern police sidearms are self-loaders, and many would need to have their springs changed and feed ramps radiused and polished to work with light, blunt nose loads. Not many trainers want that much extra work.