.38+ v. .357 in a snubby

D

DDGator

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I am narrowing my carry choices as I wait for my CW permit to arrive (FL).

Assuming the same size snubby, is there a real tactical advantage to .357 over .38 +P? I will be carrying in an office environment where I am concerned about overpenetration of interior walls and such, so I will probably choose a pre-fragmented, Glaser type round. With that limitation, does the additional power of the .357 matter?

Furthermore, does it outweigh the muzzle blast/flash/flip that the .357 will also bring? Any opinions would be appreciated!

I am leaning toward the Taurus 651/851 Protector series -- seems like the perfect small snub. It has a "zero profile" hammer to facilitate concealment and low profile integral adjustable sights (I know -- for what that is worth). The +P rated .38 is 16oz. in ultralite, while the .357 is about 25 oz. -- although the weight probably helps in the Magnum. If I am going to shoot .38s anyway -- I might as well save the carry weight.

Any thoughts?
 
Try before you buy.
With that choice, I would opt for the heavier one regardless of ammo used.

Performance of .357 defensive ammo is much greater than any store bought .38 special.

But if you shoot better with .38special......carry that.

Look for bullet performance rather than counting the Ps.

Sam
 
I think the choice of the 38 Spcl over a 357 is a good one, especially with the Glaser or Mag Safe ammo. I beleive that Mag Safe is the better round from tests I have conducted. Either one will do just fine in the enviornment you describe. They both WILL go through walls at close range. This is a close range ammo and MAY not ricochet or penetrate as much at a distance. I like this ammo because of its effect on soft tissue.
 
Granted that this is a specific gun, my Ruger Speed Six 2.75'' is a true .357 mag. It's chronographed velocities were within spitting distance of a 4'' 586 that I had. I really liked the Win ''white box'' 110gr .357 load but it would not shoot to point of aim at 15 yds. I switched to Fed 158 Hydra-shoks. Now that I own a 4'' model 19 I may very well go back to the 110gr bullet. So in my personal experience I have not found any .38 Special that will compare to the magnum snub. As Sam said though, get what you can shoot well.
 
I think the .38 will be easier to hit with. Also, I can fire follow-up shots quicker with a .38 than with a .357 (in snubs). To me, getting in several (well, 2-3) well-aimed shots quickly is more important than one well-aimed but more powerful shot.

Granted, your skill level with snubs may be better than mine.
 
I prefer the lighter gun for all day carry. With the short barrel the difference in velocity is not going to be that great anyway. I usually carry a S&W model 638 Airweight with lightened trigger and 158GR. SWHP ammo. I also live in Clearwater. I have found that concealed carry is a challenge in this heat and with the type of clothes that I wear. If you are in an air conditioned office, and wear a suit, just about anything is concealable and comfortable with the right holster.
 
Not to knock the Taurii or slam Sam, but from my experience in frequently packing the 5-holers all day every day in a hot climate, the lighter the better.

38+P guns don't come much lighter (yet!) than *&* Model 342 - just 11 ounces. Model 340 adds just 1 ounce for .357 option. Maybe I'm just super-sensitive to such, but I can "feel" the one ounce difference in an ankle holster or IWB on draw sting shorts.

Recoil with either can seem atrocious to some if shooting with Bantam grips that typically come on 'em. Solution here was larger size Hogue rubber for 342 and Crimson Trace "overmoulded" for 340.

Altho more fps, I suspect that at least the "muzzle flip", possibly felt recoil, when shooting the light pre-fragmented loads out of the snubs will be less than with typical 125 or 158 grain bullets. Unlike with semi-autos, at least it won't cost you a small fortune to see how the Glasers or Magsafes run in your gun ... But, with whatever snub you go with, compared to the "heavy" bullets, be prepared for them to be around 2" lower at 7 yards ...
 
No slam. That's why I say try before you buy.
Personaly have had no trouble packin full size guns all day, every day, in the tropics.

Not comfortable, comforting.

Sam
 
They both have their own perceived advantages.

Some sware 38+P has quicker follow up shots. Comes in lighter guns. Cost less to shoot and practice with. Its not as hard on the gun or shooter. Wont overpenetrate as much...etc etc

The 357 is the best alltime OSS trophy winner :eek: until recently while the 40 S&W took over (I think :confused: ) Its got flash and boom to back up the FPE that doubles the 38+P. Almost as quick of followup shots as 38, if you practice...I cant do it that fast but know people who can.

6 of one 1/2 doz.........To each their own, gun, caliber and choice.
Which ever you carry just practice your ass off and live well.
Shoot well
 
Frangible .357s, being abnormally light, recoil less than your average 125grain .357 (even discounting the monsters like the Remington).

So for some (depending on both gun and person), critters like the MagSafe Defender are the ONLY .357s they'll tolerate the recoil from.

If we're NOT talking frangibles, the 158+P LSWC-HP .38s are "good enough" for most needs if you do your part. Yes, you can get at least 150-200fps more out of most .357s, even in a snubby.

Question is, do you need it? If the recoil on the .357s is such that fast follow-up is difficult, or one-handed fire is uncontrollable, those old .38+Ps won't leave you "unarmed" :). (And yes, I consider one-handed control critical, you never know when one-handed fire will be necessary. One-handed fire with a snub .38 ended the Miami86 fight - through auto glass.)
 
I love the .357 Magnum cartridge in a six inch barrel. In anything shorter, I'll stick to the .38 Spec +p or +P+.

I think you would be very well armed with a .38 Spec loaded with the old FBI load of a 158 Gr LSWCHP +P. It has worked well for the bureau's agents out of short barrels for many years.

And I think you will shoot it much more accurately than a .357. Bear in mind that with a five shooter, you'd better hit the target with every round. You might not have time to reload if you flinch from the magnum's recoil and blast, and miss your target.
 
Go with the .357 handgun. Even if you dont like the kick from the .357 you can always load it with .38 instead. Besides, variety is the spice of life.;)
 
Here's what I do in my 340Sc .357.

First four rounds are Winchester USA 125 gr .38+p JHP's
The last shot is a Federal Classic HiShok 125gr .357magnum JHP

1.The first four shots will be fast followup and you aren't likely to start flinching after the first shot as you might if all were magnums (at least in this 12oz gun).
2.If you need all 5 rounds you want the last one to be as powerful as possible.
3.That magnum feels very different than a .38+p and serves as a good empty gun indicator.

This was not an original idea of mine, but I read it on TFL or GlockTalk and it made sense to me.
 
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Years ago when I carried a six shot 357 with a six inch barrel I loaded it with two 38+P LSWC HP's followed by four 357's. Now, my S&W 640 is stoked with five 110 or 125 gr JHP Magnums. With the reduced velocity from a short barrel, I don't think the light bullets will over penetrate.
 
Another thing to consider: I don't want to think what would be left of your hearing if you fired a .357 magnum in an office. You might consider whether the .38 Special would be an adequate round for defense (any premium Plus P hollowpoint) and weigh the potential disadvantages vs. the advantages of the faster round. :(
 
Better ballistics trumps hearing damage. Shotguns are extremely loud, and they are the best close range stoppers. People have used them for home defense so many times it is ridiculous. Sure you will lose some hearing, it is better than losing your life. Survival is the first concern, everything else is secondary.
 
C.R.Sam: Comforting, not comfotable. SWEET!!!!!

Remember, handgun stopping power is maginal to begin with.
If you can handle it, the hotter the better(heavier gun means easier control). But if 357 won't allow enough practice to become proficient carry the lighter 38 spec. No matter the caliber or power level, a hit is better than a miss because you flinched, or if you need a second fast hit, lighter most likely better.
 
One might be suprised to see how little performance is left in the .38+p from a short tube. From my 360PD the Winchester 125gr.38 Semi-JHP clocks a meager 723fps (thats under 150ft/lbs folks). The ol' stand by 158gr LSWC arent an all together bad choice, but dont expect any expansion from a short barrel. On the other hand, the medium-velocity and very controlable even in the Scandium guns, .357 125gr. Remington Golden Saber chronographs at 1075fps (321fp/lbs) from the 1 7/8 inch barrel.
If you are set on using pre-frags, recoil isnt going to be an issue. The hottest .357 pre-frags are going to feel like .32's even from a lightweight snubbie due to the bullets extream light weight. Pre-frags and frangibles need lots of velocity to work. Many .38 exotics behave like very light solids when fired from a short barrel.

On a less emprical note, recoil controle is seldom a matter of picking a less powerfull load, but a matter of praciticing more.
 
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